North Jersey 7/26/2008 meet impressions

[malldian]

Ok a few impressions. To begin, this was my first meet of any type and I had no idea what to expect. Some part of me clearly thought that it was going to be very uncomfortable yet interesting - definitely worth doing. While the latter aspects certainly proved true the first did not at all. Although I got claustrophobic at some points (small room with a lot of stuff and people) and walked out for a bit to sit outside or grab a smoke I found a the whole experience to be enjoyable. Everyone was very friendly and fun to talk to. The guy from head-firect was nice and looks like he has a real cool great sounding amp coming out in the next week or so. Now for impressions:

Beyerdynamic Headzone: I was pretty curious about this as I read about it and interested in trying it for sure. To be honest, and this was a general finding among the people there, it wasn't anything more than a gimmick for regular stereo listening. There was a firmware issue that disrupted the effect, as you turned there were two points, like 15 degrees from the top on each side that would kind of pause. For the surround sound concerts, the effect was pretty entertaining. I feel like Smyth's product will out trump this one if the reviews I have read are in any way accurate but this was still fun to try out. After me and Larry did some comparisons between two cheap DVD players (more later) as a DAC (to a Meier amp) and transport (to the Headzone) we found that the Headzone had a reasonable DAC and amp. As Larry put it, certainly a bargain for a tenth the price.

Whiplash Audio: First off, I feel obligated to speak on behalf of the two guys at Whiplash Audio. They were both knowledgeable and helpful and I learned a few things that I did not know before, ranging from simple care of equipment to a bit about cables (more later). Their rigs were absolutely incredible, and I greatly appreciated them bringing the RS-2's. The headroom unit through both the AKG 701's and the RS-2's were both incredible systems. I didn't spend time with the Stax system on the other table because I would keep getting distracted but in my opinion, that system stole the show. Dark Side of the Moon SACD was nothing short of astounding in that system.

Throughout the day, SACD-Man was touting his cables pretty strongly to most the audience. I pretty much watched and observed, clearly not believing the hype. Finally I sat down to listen to different LODs in the following setup: Hotel California > iPod > ***** LOD > iQube > RS 2. I switched between four cables, two at a time and found that I was actually hearing a difference. I waited to hear him describe what the supposed difference was to confirm what I was hearing or to write it off as hype but what he described as the difference was what I heard. I like copper and will be interested in doing comparisons down the road between copper and other materials.

I ended up buying one of their products for my father, a foldable iPod / iPhone stand. It looks great and my dad really likes it. If you are looking for a classier solution then just keeping your iPhone lying on the desk, I would check this unit out. I have a feeling that these guys will be shaking up the industry real soon and their exposure at the meets like this one will certainly help them. Now onto the different rigs I heard.

Jellojoe: The resident NJ AKG collector, jellojoe had a really cool collection of headphones. The two of his that I listened too and came back to listen to later was the 501 and 400. I will be checking eBay for the 400 on occasion now. His CD player looked real sharp witht he wood customization and had a really cool rig to listen to. A great guy to talk to as well.

Barry: I didn't get to listen to his rig but the I did spend some time with the RS-1's he brought. Yeah I want them a lot haha but that is way down the road which is really fine with me. Comparing them to Whiplash's RS-2 I confirmed what I already though, both are in my opinion outstanding headphones but I have the feeling that long term I would prefer the RS-1. I would have to spend more time in a quieter setting with both to come to a real decision.

grandenigma1: I have never really gotten a chance before this to hear a quality vinyl rig and I was nothing short of amazed. The system was incredible. I brought the Radiohead In Rainbows boxset so I could side by side compare the vinyl to CD on the same headphones (different amp) and could see why vinyl garners so much attention. I am fairly anxious to start getting into vinyl - it should be a lot of fun. Zach was also a real cool guy to talk to as well and his work really looked professional.

88db: Another guy that was very interesting to talk to, his rig sounded excellent as well. While I had heard that the high-end Sennheisers had good bass extension, the 600 took me by suprise. His Tonewin CD player was pretty interesting, it had both a tube and solid state output. I perferred the solid state over the tubes and found out later that the rest of the guys did as well. Maybe mixing tubes with the Channel Islands Audio VHP-1 and VAC-1 wasn't a good combo. Those units were really cool - sounded good, looked sharp, and were very small.

clauswitz: I spent a lot of time talking to this guy throughout and especially towards the end of the meet and he gets the award for budget buyer. He had a great sounding system at a fraction of the cost of a lot of the others.

More to come later.

[jellojoe]

Originally Posted by malldian

...
Jellojoe: The resident NJ AKG collector, jellojoe had a really cool collection of headphones. The two of his that I listened too and came back to listen to later was the 501 and 400. I will be checking eBay for the 400 on occasion now. His CD player looked real sharp witht he wood customization and had a really cool rig to listen to. A great guy to talk to as well.
...

Just want to clarify that swt61 made that wood front panel. I'd probably lose a couple of digits if I tried to do that.

Anyways, it was a great meet and a big thanks for our organizers as well as the raffle contributors.

I think I listened to vinylspinner's Cary/KGSS/Stax Omega setup the most. I liked it a lot although I would have preferred a less dark sound. I also tried out coldkeith's Lamba Pro and Lamda Normal and thought one of them was too bright, the other one was excellent though.

I heard the AKG K1000 for the first time out of nikongod's setup. As some have noted, the the K501 is a poor man's K1000 and I concur. I also had a brief session with nikongod's Grado HP2's and decided they were not for me. I like the sound of the two Grado HF1 at the meet much better.

88db's HD600 surprised me. His HD600's sounded much faster than the stock ones I have, but I didn't bring mine or try a pair of stock HD600 on his rig.

I tried my stock AKG K340 out of malldian's DV 336 and Barry's Cayin HA-1A, and thought the K340 sounded better out of those than the DV 332 I have.

The biggest surprise of the day was edhamgtr's AKG K500 w/ K701 pads. I had expected them to sound like the K501 w/ K701 pads, i.e. more but muddy bass along with less airy treble. Instead, they sounded just right out of his 15" powerbook headphone out.

I met Fang from head-direct for the first time. In addition to the usual YUIN earphone and IEM lineup, there was a headphone amp (single 12AU7 used, hybrid?) that should be unleashed shortly. Fang also did a hotswapping of the tube which I didn't think was possible.

[jellojoe]

Originally Posted by malldian

...

Beyerdynamic Headzone: I was pretty curious about this as I read about it and interested in trying it for sure. To be honest, and this was a general finding among the people there, it wasn't anything more than a gimmick for regular stereo listening. There was a firmware issue that disrupted the effect, as you turned there were two points, like 15 degrees from the top on each side that would kind of pause. For the surround sound concerts, the effect was pretty entertaining. I feel like Smyth's product will out trump this one if the reviews I have read are in any way accurate but this was still fun to try out. After me and Larry did some comparisons between two cheap DVD players (more later) as a DAC (to a Meier amp) and transport (to the Headzone) we found that the Headzone had a reasonable DAC and amp. As Larry put it, certainly a bargin for the price.
...

Which headphone out of the Corda HA-2 did you guys use? I usually use the 0 ohm one (one on the right).

[MD1032]

Oh man! That was a tremendous meet. I couldn't believe how well it worked out. Larry (Wavoman) is definitely to be commended for doing such a fantastic job getting that hotel room ready. We found some extra tables and were able to set up even more equipment, so things were hopping as you can tell!

Preface: I am horrible with names, and if I forget your name, I apologize.

Well, firstly, I got to try Larry's Predator with my setup. That thing is definitely a monster for something that small. It's really not even funny how much butt that thing kicks in such a small package. Great neutrality overall. I think my only complaint would be that the highs can be just a little much at times, and it could use a tad more bass. Still doesn't detract from the value or the sound. IMO, for $500, it's a killer. Too bad I didn't get to compare it to the Pico.

Next I got to listen to 88db's rig. This rig completely impressed the heck out of me. I've never seen the Tonewin HD19 CDP mentioned on this board before, but that thing was a killer source. It has both a tube and solid state section, of which I preferred the solid state but could see the tube making a difference on harsh albums. The amp he had hooked up to it was also a mystery to me. The list says "Channel Islands Audio VHP-1 and VAC-1". I'm not sure how much those cost, but they sounded great. Overall, the biggest thing I noticed was that his rig, despite having totally different equipment, and using Sennheiser HD600's, sounded extremely similar to my rig, but with less bass and sharper highs. My experience with the Sennheiser HD580/600/650 series is that they sound very slow with anything I throw at them, like the bass is delayed and the sound is coming through foam or something and doesn't have any edge to it. This predisposition was shattered upon hearing this guy's rig. I cued up some music on my laptop source and put a CD in on his CDP and compared the same track, and we were both switching back and forth, unable to understand how two completely different headphones could acheive such a similar sound. All I know is, we definitely have similar tastes and I'd take his setup as a second rig any day of the week.

Next I got to try Matt's (malldian's) DAC with my laptop. This was a DAC that I'm not familiar with and honestly forget the name of. It had a glossy semitransparent black case and a few LED's inside. Anyway, this DAC sounded very good indeed, but unfortunately produced a low-level buzzing sound with my rig. I'll have to look into that some other time.

After getting tired of hearing my rig, I strolled over to vpivinylspinner's Stax setup and heard those. He said there was something wrong with them, I believe, but I thought they sounded decent anyway. Electrostatics are always interesting to hear, no doubt.

Once in the electrostatics mood, I took a trip over to coldkeith's setup, which was very cool. I switched between the Stax Lambda Pro's and Signatures (one was brown, one was black, can't remember which was which), and was very curious to see that each one had its advantages over the other. A couple people nearby asked me which one I preferred, and one expressed a preference towards the brown ones. I switched a few more times and said "I can't decide, honestly". Coldkeith was sitting nearby and said "Just say both." well, exactly! I enjoyed that setup a lot, easily my favorite electrostatic setup to date. Electrostats seem to be able to pull apart the individual instruments with ease.

At some point I got to try out Larry's Beyerdynamic Headzone. This was a very interesting concept with a strange design and unusual implementation. Basically, it's DT880's with sensors on them that correspond with sensors on the unit. When you turn your head, the voice will move as if it is coming from the screen. Really, for a $2,000 device, none of us were impressed, and Larry himself stated the truth: it's rather "gimmicky". The amp wasn't that great, the effects were mostly useless, and honestly, I was much happier just plugging Larry's DT880-600ohm's into my rig. Those sounded GREAT. I wish I had compared them to the 250-ohm's.

Well, Ari (Nikongod) showed up with his usual compliment of absolutely awesome equipment. I didn't get to hear his vinyl rig, but the xiangsheng with the CDP they had set up there (sp???) sounded very nice. I got to hear the HP-2's again, and they were just absolutely awesome as usual. I swear, there are no other headphones like those in the world. His black HD580's with the 600 screens were very cool-looking, too, and sounded great. I also heard his K1000's. Man, those are some killer cans. Whoever says they don't have enough bass is crazy.

Barry (Barry) and Matt (threEchelon) showed up from Philly, who I have attended a meet with. They both brought RS-1's, which I was happy to compare to my HF-1's. I never realized this before, but the HF-1's with flat pads sound very similar to the RS-1's with flat pads. This was a very interesting thing to actually hear. The RS-1's have a darker midrange and brighter highs with the flats with better resolution and detail, but the HF-1's are pretty close, IMO. the HF-1's sound way more like the RS-1's than any other Grados do. This meet re-confirmed for me that the RS-2's are a great value, and at the same time, nothing like the RS-1's in the Grado universe.

clauswitz came equipped with a rig that really surprised me. A Pioneer CDP as a transport to an Entech 205.2 DAC with a Porta Corda II amp. This setup really sounded sweet to me. I was really surprised at how neutral, clean, and non-fatiguing it was. I'm definitely going to have to look into that DAC. That setup really surprised me because it definitely sounded much better than mine with my headphones, and at the same time, wasn't anything fancy.

All right, so towards the end of the meet, I decided to cut the crap and head on over to SACD-Man's (Craig's) rig. He decided to show me a cable demonstration first that re-confirmed my suspicion about cables. At the same time, though, the room was noisy, the source was foreign, and the music was not mine, so I admit that it might not have been totally fair. Anyway, to cut to the chase, his SACD source (Sony SCD-XA777ES with modwright mods), along with the Headroom Desktop Amp with Max module and Max DAC, is THE BEST setup I have ever heard in my life. I played my DSOTM 30th anniversary edition SACD and was just FLOORED by the sound that came out. The soundstage with SACD is HUGE!!!, and the overall sound is as well! Unbelievable detail, no fatigue, huge, huge deep bass. Everything you could ask for. I told him later that whatever he had spent in mods and such on the player may have been ridiculous, but IMO, you cannot put a price on the sound that came out of that rig. I tried Ari's HP-2's, my HF-1's, some RS-2's, and some HD600's with that setup, and all of them sounded absolutely insane. For this reason, I'd say that was the best rig at the meet, and, indeed, the best digital rig I've ever heard, period.

My final stop was at Fang's setup. Fang, for the unacquainted, runs Head-Direct, a newcomer to the audio market, but with some great products and excellent offerings at extremely competitive prices. Two years ago, he showed up at the NYC meet and pretty much blew us away with his PK1 eabuds. Today he was back with some more great products that I hadn't hear before. The OK's are a newer series and in my opinion, superior to the PK series. I heard the OK1's, and while I didn't get to try the little sound tube, I thought they sounded really great as earbuds. The kind of sound that this man is able to acheive with earbuds is absolutely insane. These earbuds sound so huge, that if you hadn't told me I was wearing earbuds, I'd tell you it sounded like I was listening to full-size cans.

Fang also had a newer series, the RE series, that similarly impressed me. I'd like to think of these as a full replacement for the Sony EX71SL's and all the other look-alike cheapos like them on the market. They take on a similar design but add real sound and the result is pure confusion because they're low-priced, extremely easy to insert (literally, push and twist, no messing around like with Shures, UE's, Westones, Etymotics, or any of them), cosmetically appealing, and sound great!!

I also got to hear two prototypes. One was the RE0, a very nice-looking vmoda-ish IEM, but made completely of metal. To-notch construction for sure... puts the E500 to shame, even. I remarked that it was a bit bright, but he said that they would fix that, and this was just one of many prototypes. I think once he fixes the brightness problem on those, those things will be able to compete with Shure's higher-end stuff. I know most of the stuff he had there could easily demolish my Shure E3's. The other prototype was his EF1 headphone amp, a tube-solid-state hybrid. This amp floored me as well. He had a meridian CDP source, and the two together sounded glorious. Very, very neutral sound with a huge soundstage, big bass, and non-fatiguing highs. Just what I like. That amp is going to be an absolutely killer amp when it comes out. It's customizable somewhat as well (tube, op-amp rolling at least), so I think it will be extremely well-received. To be honest, I would have liked to compare that amp to the RSA Raptor, it was that good.

All in all, the meet was a huge success, and I'd be glad to participate in another one like it some other time!

And again, huge thanks to Larry (wavoman) for getting the room!!!

[malldian]

Originally Posted by jellojoe

Which headphone out of the Corda HA-2 did you guys use? I usually use the 0 ohm one (one on the right).

The 120 with AKG 701's.

[Nankai]

What a great meet! I had a good time at NJ. The meet gave us an opportunity to talk to our friends in real world. We got very good chance to know each other, make new friends and learn new things. Thanks to the host John and Larry, and the NJ headfiers for their efforts!

[malldian]

Originally Posted by MD1032

Next I got to try Matt's (malldian's) DAC with my laptop. This was a DAC that I'm not familiar with and honestly forget the name of. It had a glossy semitransparent black case and a few LED's inside. Anyway, this DAC sounded very good indeed, but unfortunately produced a low-level buzzing sound with my rig. I'll have to look into that some other time.

The Keces 151. I will finish more impressions later tonight I believe.

[flashnolan]

Originally Posted by Listens2tubes

You got some great pix flash!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by malldian;

Beyerdynamic Headzone: I was pretty curious about this as I read about it and interested in trying it for sure. To be honest, and this was a general finding among the people there, it wasn't anything more than a gimmick for regular stereo listening. There was a firmware issue that disrupted the effect, as you turned there were two points, like 15 degrees from the top on each side that would kind of pause. For the surround sound concerts, the effect was pretty entertaining. I feel like Smyth's product will out trump this one if the reviews I have read are in any way accurate but this was still fun to try out. After me and Larry did some comparisons between two cheap DVD players (more later) as a DAC (to a Meier amp) and transport (to the Headzone) we found that the Headzone had a reasonable DAC and amp. As Larry put it, certainly a bargin for the price.

I'll pretty much second this. With music I thought the head tracking was gimmicky. I really wanted to try this with a surround sound movie like The Matrix. Another things I did not like about this is they force you to buy a pair of headphones with it. I would like to add the tracking to an existing pair I already own.

[wavoman]

Originally Posted by jellojoe

Fang from head-direct ... there was a headphone amp (single 12AU7 used, hybrid?) that should be unleashed shortly. Fang also did a hotswapping of the tube which I didn't think was possible.

Yep, everyone who auditioned it loved it. At dinner he convinced my to buy one, even though I didn't hear it! (Never sit across from a manufacturer if you want to save your wallet). He says his chief engineer is a genius. He must be right.

The amp is indeed a hybrid, and at a great price (we'll have to wait for the official introduction in a few weeks to learn the full details).

Can we get S.E.T. sound, sweet, without the hassles? At least we can say "yea, I have an amp with a single triode!" :-) .

The tube-care thread here talks about guard circuits and bleed resistors ... so I guess you can hot-swap tubes ... as you can see, I am out of my depth totally. I only know DSP. And that head-direct is a manufacturer that really cares about quality.

[SACD-Man]

Before I go crazy with all of my impressions, I wanted to thank MD1032 and WAVOMAN for this opportunity. Truly a fantastic meet and I can't wait until next year!!!

Later tonight on my reviews.......

[wavoman]

I am going to post an interim review of the beyer HeadZone soon in a separate thread, based on what we all heard at the meet, plus some additional listening.

I'll put a link here.

(MD1032 -- In BYPASS mode the DAC + HP amp is pretty damn good, as malldian and I proved. I'll have more comments on why that might matter in the new thread).

[malldian]

I guess I will just post impressions as I think of them. We compared an Oppo DVD player to the Toshiba cheapie that was a FOTM a while back and decided two things, one that as he said the DAC/Amp was, while nothing to get too excited about, fairly decent and two, something I had thought for a while and Larry agreed with was that the digital transport means very little relative to a better DAC. While this may or may not be true at ten times the price, as a transport we noticed almost no difference between the unit costing 5 times as much.

[richierich]

Looks like you guys had fun! Thanks for posting details/impressions.

[wavoman]

Listening to their analog output thru the Meier amp, the Oppo bested the Tosh, but only by a little. Still the Oppo is a fine buy, its video capabilities are outstanding (as we proved using the concert videos).

It would appear that modern DACS can handle anything even modest transports throw at them. Other threads have noted that the old jitter issues are dead, and I think we witnessed that at the meet.

I used to think it would be better to have the transport and DAC both be high-end in the same unit -- one digital engineer in charge of oversampling / interpolating bits. With today's DACs, maybe not so important anymore.

Where else but meets can you so easily swap equipment and learn stuff!

If this is to be an annual event, maybe we pick a permanent venue, in the middle of the state, easy to get to from Philly and NY. Princeton?

[grandenigma1]

Originally Posted by wavoman

Listening to their analog output thru the Meier amp, the Oppo bested the Tosh, but only by a little. Still the Oppo is a fine buy, its video capabilities are outstanding (as we proved using the concert videos).

It would appear that modern DACS can handle anything even modest transports throw at them. Other threads have noted that the old jitter issues are dead, and I think we witnessed that at the meet.

I used to think it would be better to have the transport and DAC both be high-end in the same unit -- one digital engineer in charge of oversampling / interpolating bits. With today's DACs, maybe not so important anymore.

Where else but meets can you so easily swap equipment and learn stuff!

If this is to be an annual event, maybe we pick a permanent venue, in the middle of the state, easy to get to from Philly and NY. Princeton?

How about annual NORTH Jersey meet