Hanging Out in Sarasota

[agile_one]

Originally Posted by boomana

... They performed double blind tests with cables (working method of seeing double before going blind), and made stunningly accurate amp sq evals and synergy decisions based on color and shape alone.

They laughed at Edison, too.

John, Matt, and I were hoping to do more research study, and comprehensive data analysis before publishing, but this scandalous attack on our methods deserves immediate public rebuttal.

Here is the gist of our work.

1. It occurred to us that much of the listening experience is affected by one's mood, or recepetiveness to the music at the time of listening. All agreed that there are occaisions when nothing sounds right or good with the exact same music and gear that at another session are glorious. This is considered the emotional, or subjective side of hearing and experiencing the music.

2. There was also unanimity of thought that technical factors are just as real. Higher quality parts, and better designed circuits make significant improvemments to sound quality. Proper measurement of this set of variables is best done in a double blind environment, where the lstener does not know what equipment is being heard, and must evaluate on perceived sound quality alone.

3. We concluded that we needed a properly designed experiment that a.) guaranteed that the participants wrere in the proper emotional state, and b.) had no knowledge of what equipment was being heard, thus removing prior ideas of what is best.

4. Metholodogy ...

a.) Get double blind - this was accomplished by rigorous selection and quaffing of some of the finest beers available in the city. To insure complete double-blindness, shots of Jagermeister finished off the conditioning session, as that tonic is reknowned for it's medicinal qualities.

b.) Listen to gear, and hope to remember what is being heard.

5. Results ... In a word, astonishing! A whole new line of audio inquiry was stumbled upon. Our work suggests that previously overlooked factors have great affect on sound quality and perception. Much of the original notes have been lost, but my memory may be trusted - as proof, I rarely forget my car keys, and only occaisionally forget important dates.

As alluded to above, we were hoping for more time to properly organize and present our findings, but the besmirchment of our honor cannot go unanswered. Accordingly, we list our findings.

a.) color matters - we were fortunate to have on hand some identical gear in different shades, ie: a red Hornet and a black Hornet, a black LaRocco PRII and a silver one, cables in black, red, orange, purple, green and blue. Here is the initial Naj Color Quantification List (NAJ=NightwoundsTimeagile_onejp11801):

- red is hot, slightly forward, and oh so warm
- blue is cool, moody, and just a tad laid back
- green is fun, lively, and great for pop
- orange and purple were actually quite similar, earthy, worldly, experienced
- black? what can we say of black? it combines a bit of all the others, excelling at no specific things, but the perfect all 'rounder. you can never go wrong with black.

b.) just as color matters, so, to, do shape, texture, and, yes, size I wish I could say more, but our data is still being analized, and to publish in such a learned forum as Head-Fi, we must be conclusive.

So, I trust I have put to rest any questions of our honor and intregrity raised by the scurrilous comments of our co-conspirator, boomana.

Originally Posted by boomana

As the only sober person near them (others ran away), I took copious notes of random antics and verbal abuses. Let me know if you need any to make a case.

What happened to the "what happens at the slumber party stays at the slumber party" oath? Surely not worth breaking just to curry favor with the man? (or men, as I believe both Wayne and Mike are the prosecutors here)

[tyrion]

Originally Posted by agile_one

They laughed at Edison, too.

John, Matt, and I were hoping to do more research study, and comprehensive data analysis before publishing, but this scandalous attack on our methods deserves immediate public rebuttal.

Here is the gist of our work.

1. It occurred to us that much of the listening experience is affected by one's mood, or recepetiveness to the music at the time of listening. All agreed that there are occaisions when nothing sounds right or good with the exact same music and gear that at another session are glorious. This is considered the emotional, or subjective side of hearing and experiencing the music.

2. There was also unanimity of thought that technical factors are just as real. Higher quality parts, and better designed circuits make significant improvemments to sound quality. Proper measurement of this set of variables is best done in a double blind environment, where the lstener does not know what equipment is being heard, and must evaluate on perceived sound quality alone.

3. We concluded that we needed a properly designed experiment that a.) guaranteed that the participants wrere in the proper emotional state, and b.) had no knowledge of what equipment was being heard, thus removing prior ideas of what is best.

4. Metholodogy ...

a.) Get double blind - this was accomplished by rigorous selection and quaffing of some of the finest beers available in the city. To insure complete double-blindness, shots of Jagermeister finished off the conditioning session, as that tonic is reknowned for it's medicinal qualities.

b.) Listen to gear, and hope to remember what is being heard.

5. Results ... In a word, astonishing! A whole new line of audio inquiry was stumbled upon. Our work suggests that previously overlooked factors have great affect on sound quality and perception. Much of the original notes have been lost, but my memory may be trusted - as proof, I rarely forget my car keys, and only occaisionally forget important dates.

As alluded to above, we were hoping for more time to properly organize and present our findings, but the besmirchment of our honor cannot go unanswered. Accordingly, we list our findings.

a.) color matters - we were fortunate to have on hand some identical gear in different shades, ie: a red Hornet and a black Hornet, a black LaRocco PRII and a silver one, cables in black, red, orange, purple, green and blue. Here is the initial Naj Color Quantification List (NAJ=NightwoundsTimeagile_onejp11801):

- red is hot, slightly forward, and oh so warm
- blue is cool, moody, and just a tad laid back
- green is fun, lively, and great for pop
- orange and purple were actually quite similar, earthy, worldly, experienced
- black? what can we say of black? it combines a bit of all the others, excelling at no specific things, but the perfect all 'rounder. you can never go wrong with black.

b.) just as color matters, so, to, do shape, texture, and, yes, size I wish I could say more, but our data is still being analized, and to publish in such a learned forum as Head-Fi, we must be conclusive.

So, I trust I have put to rest any questions of our honor and intregrity raised by the scurrilous comments of our co-conspirator, boomana.


What happened to the "what happens at the slumber party stays at the slumber party" oath? Surely not worth breaking just to curry favor with the man? (or men, as I believe both Wayne and Mike are the prosecutors here)

There is no need for the witness to "curry favor" with Wayne and myself as we already hold Vicki in very high regard. She has a reputation that is beyond reproach. Can the same be said for tweedle dee and tweedle dumb (jp and agile, in no particular order)? I think not. Motion to Dismiss the charges are DENIED! I am willing to accept item 4(a) as a partial defense to the charges. I believe I may have been "double blind" at the time of filing the indictment.

You are free to appeal this to an even higher authority, Justice McManus, otherwise known as Hanging Wayne. I guess the tiltle of this thread can be taken literally.

[agile_one]

Originally Posted by tyrion

... Gene table top dancing, that would have been worth another $10.

In your dreams ...

[tyrion]

Originally Posted by agile_one

In your dreams ...

We will see, California is only 17 days away. Remember johnnie numbers is our tour guide from Thursday at 12am through Saturday morning at about 8am.

[agile_one]

Originally Posted by Icarium

Wow seriously? The Yamamoto held up amidst all that gear? Glad I have one on order ;p I wonder how it will stack up against my incoming Rudistor RP010 ver. 1.

Edit: Given that it is supposed to have great synergy with the AT woodies and that you are pro them Wmcmanus... I'd love to hear how you feel the L3000/W5000/et all are powered by them vs the rest of the great selection of amps you have.

I'm sure peeps from the meet can answer the L3000/AT woodies impressions questions as well if yall please

The Yamamoto HA02 is a wonderful amp, and I am pleased and proud to have it. It is definitely a contender in the $1000 range (it costs $995, delivered from Japan), but is decidedly not an amp for everyone, though, as it has it's eccentricities.

You will not like this amp if the following are important to you:

- large size, huge metal case, massiveness
- enough power to light a small city
- ability for unlimited tube rolling
- complete absence of tube hum

If you've gotten past the above, and you value:

- beauty, craftsmanship, and design
- simplicity
- headphone versatality, it sounds good with most any
- smaller size

Then the HA02 should be a definite consideration.

For the tube rollers, you are completely out of luck here. The little Yammy uses 2 Western Electric 408A tubes. The only variation will be different manufacture dates, or finding the same 408A tube made under license by Ericson or Northern Electric.

Another note on the 408A tubes. The good news is that they are plentiful, and widely available at $5 to $15. The bad is that their quality seems to vary, so all that you buy may not be usable.

Let's get the one flaw in an otherwise perfect amp out of the way - there is a slight tube hum starting at about 1/2 volume level, and increasing as you go higher from there. Fortunately that is twice as high as average listening levels (1/4 max, or 9 - 10 o'clock is quite loud with all but the K1000s or K340s), so it doesn't really come into play. The hum is totally masked when source signals are present. I also found that overdriving the inputs will exacerbate that hum - when I had full output from the pro level Apogee Mini-DAC, for example), so source matching is a consideration.

As mentioned by others in this little meet thread, the Yamamoto sounds great with every headphone we had on hand, save the K340. By great, I mean that the cans a sounded as good or better than with every other amplifier. Of course this included the AT woodies - the L3000 that I find good with most any good source and amp, and the ATH W2002 which are a notororiously fickle headphone. The W2002s were at their best out of the Yamamoto - as good as from their matching HA2002 or the Sugdens I've heard them with in the past.

John and Vicki loved the k1000 from the Yammy, and I was actually astounded that it drove them without any clipping whatsoever (the k1000 was connected to the speaker terminals of the Yamamoto). I felt John's First Watt was clearly better for the K1000s, and would never recommend the Yamamoto as a primary amp for them, but certainly agree that it made beautiful music with them. All the other cans at hand besides the K340 - they were ok, but the K340 is definitely better from powerful SS (HR-2 and Heed were both there) or something like the Extreme, sounded at their best from the Yamamoto. This included the aformentioned L3000 and W2002, as well as the R10, Sony SA5000, Grado HP-2, Senn HD-650, AKG K701, etc.

There is something that is just "right" about how the Yamamoto sounded with all those headphones. I think different people described it in different ways - what is "right" for each can be different, one to the other (speed, detail, smoothness, musicality, etc). That seems to be the magic with this amp - it is "right" sounding to all who heard it Saturday.

[agile_one]

Audio Line Out racabled AKG K701: I meant to mention this much earlier, but my K701s had just returned from Ken Ball at ALO with a recable job - I literally picked them up from the P.O. on Saturday morning before folks arrived.

Ken used some of his magic Cryo cable, and modded the K701 to accept cable to both right and left earpieces. The workmanship was up to his usual highest standards, and looks great.

Even with no burn in, the newly rewired 701 sounded better than ever. Immediately apparent were the bottom (bass) being filled in, a sweetness to both male and female voices that was always missing before, and even more air and stage. All this with no sacrifice of detail or extension. Will be interesting to see if changes occur with use - can't imagine they can get much better.

Alas, no stock K701 to compare with, so you are at the mercy of my audio memory.

[tyrion]

Originally Posted by agile_one

Audio Line Out racabled AKG K701: I meant to mention this much earlier, but my K701s had just returned from Ken Ball at ALO with a recable job - I literally picked them up from the P.O. on Saturday morning before folks arrived.

Ken used some of his magic Cryo cable, and modded the K701 to accept cable to both right and left earpieces. The workmanship was up to his usual highest standards, and looks great.

Even with no burn in, the newly rewired 701 sounded better than ever. Immediately apparent were the bottom (bass) being filled in, a sweetness to both male and female voices that was always missing before, and even more air and stage. All this with no sacrifice of detail or extension. Will be interesting to see if changes occur with use - can't imagine they can get much better.

Alas, no stock K701 to compare with, so you are at the mercy of my audio memory.

I sent an email to Ken this morning asking about recabling my K1000.

[boomana]

Originally Posted by agile_one

They laughed at Edison, too.

John, Matt, and I were hoping to do more research study, and comprehensive data analysis before publishing, but this scandalous attack on our methods deserves immediate public rebuttal.

Here is the gist of our work.

1. It occurred to us that much of the listening experience is affected by one's mood, or recepetiveness to the music at the time of listening. All agreed that there are occaisions when nothing sounds right or good with the exact same music and gear that at another session are glorious. This is considered the emotional, or subjective side of hearing and experiencing the music.

2. There was also unanimity of thought that technical factors are just as real. Higher quality parts, and better designed circuits make significant improvemments to sound quality. Proper measurement of this set of variables is best done in a double blind environment, where the lstener does not know what equipment is being heard, and must evaluate on perceived sound quality alone.

3. We concluded that we needed a properly designed experiment that a.) guaranteed that the participants wrere in the proper emotional state, and b.) had no knowledge of what equipment was being heard, thus removing prior ideas of what is best.

4. Metholodogy ...

a.) Get double blind - this was accomplished by rigorous selection and quaffing of some of the finest beers available in the city. To insure complete double-blindness, shots of Jagermeister finished off the conditioning session, as that tonic is reknowned for it's medicinal qualities.

b.) Listen to gear, and hope to remember what is being heard.

5. Results ... In a word, astonishing! A whole new line of audio inquiry was stumbled upon. Our work suggests that previously overlooked factors have great affect on sound quality and perception. Much of the original notes have been lost, but my memory may be trusted - as proof, I rarely forget my car keys, and only occaisionally forget important dates.

As alluded to above, we were hoping for more time to properly organize and present our findings, but the besmirchment of our honor cannot go unanswered. Accordingly, we list our findings.

a.) color matters - we were fortunate to have on hand some identical gear in different shades, ie: a red Hornet and a black Hornet, a black LaRocco PRII and a silver one, cables in black, red, orange, purple, green and blue. Here is the initial Naj Color Quantification List (NAJ=NightwoundsTimeagile_onejp11801):

- red is hot, slightly forward, and oh so warm
- blue is cool, moody, and just a tad laid back
- green is fun, lively, and great for pop
- orange and purple were actually quite similar, earthy, worldly, experienced
- black? what can we say of black? it combines a bit of all the others, excelling at no specific things, but the perfect all 'rounder. you can never go wrong with black.

b.) just as color matters, so, to, do shape, texture, and, yes, size I wish I could say more, but our data is still being analized, and to publish in such a learned forum as Head-Fi, we must be conclusive.

So, I trust I have put to rest any questions of our honor and intregrity raised by the scurrilous comments of our co-conspirator, boomana.


What happened to the "what happens at the slumber party stays at the slumber party" oath? Surely not worth breaking just to curry favor with the man? (or men, as I believe both Wayne and Mike are the prosecutors here)

Please note that the slumber party oath has yet to be violated as no notes of a personal nature have been published on this forum (or any other) that do not directly relate to gear, music and the enjoyment of both. Matt singing Kumbaya was music related. John's quote was about music, though no one really knows what strange mental abyss he was inhabiting at the time to come up with such commentary. The goal to get Gene to dance upon a table (and yes, I would have emptied my wallet to get pics), would have been connected to, again, music. Sadly, he showed no inclination to do so despite my carefully planned proddings and shot purchases. Also, please acknowledge that I operated in good faith by leaving my camera at home (damn).

Regarding the testing of gear, I had and hold no objection to either the rationale behind the chosen methods or the actual methods, and approve of the lengths to which the participants were willing to extend themselves. As I admitted earlier, the results were stunningly accurate despite the lack of proper controls. The utter disregard for control(s) is my only point of concern.

I have decided to blame mikeg, as a representative of the scientific community, for leaving early. Could he have kept jp nums from sneaking in that extra beer while we hid the car from him, thus assuring all participants were not in an equivalent...er...state of mind? Possibly. Could he have prevented the obvious biases (toward both beer and gear) circulating among the participants? Maybe. Any man that carries a measuring tape to meets to assure proper placement of chairs and monitors for the sole benefit and pleasure of listeners (btw, really nice, Mike), might have saved this experiment. All I know is that without his presence and considerably saner talents, any hopes of valid results were shot to hell. The only thing that remains is the need for further research: Tampa, June 9th.

[boomana]

Originally Posted by agile_one

John and Vicki loved the k1000 from the Yammy, and I was actually astounded that it drove them without any clipping whatsoever (the k1000 was connected to the speaker terminals of the Yamamoto). I felt John's First Watt was clearly better for the K1000s, and would never recommend the Yamamoto as a primary amp for them, but certainly agree that it made beautiful music with them. All the other cans at hand besides the K340 - they were ok, but the K340 is definitely better from powerful SS (HR-2 and Heed were both there) or something like the Extreme, sounded at their best from the Yamamoto. This included the aformentioned L3000 and W2002, as well as the R10, Sony SA5000, Grado HP-2, Senn HD-650, AKG K701, etc.

There is something that is just "right" about how the Yamamoto sounded with all those headphones. I think different people described it in different ways - what is "right" for each can be different, one to the other (speed, detail, smoothness, musicality, etc). That seems to be the magic with this amp - it is "right" sounding to all who heard it Saturday.

Agreed. I've been listening to my K1000s with John's FirstWatt (thanks!) all morning. I agree with Gene that the FirstWatt clearly bests the Yammy as a first choice for the K1000s, but as a potential bedroom rig (or another small space), the Yammy/K1000 combo was a pleasant surprise.

Aside from the Yammy, I want to add the the R10/HR2 combo sounded pretty sweet to my ears. It's odd what sticks in memory a day or two after the meet. I'm itching to hear this combo again.

[mikeg]

Originally Posted by boomana

Recall no clipping with the McAllister. It lives with mikeg, so he'll best be able to respond. The only other HE-90 amp I've spent any real time with was Gary's Aristaeus, and the McAllister doesn't hold up in comparison imo. But, I must add, that 's working from memory, and an addled memory at that.
Flecom recabled jp num's K1000s so either one could tell you.

The Yammy has speaker outputs and is powerful enough for the K1000s. I wish we'd had it together enough compare it to the FirstWatt only a few feet way, but that was not the order of the day, and certainly not of the night. Sorry.

No clipping was ever heard from my EA-4 McAlister, when used by numerous Headfi members at several meets; i.e., even with the McAlister driving several electrostat headphones simultaneously. I also never heard any clipping when using it to drive my HE90. As for a comparison of the Aristaeus to my McAlister, I'd expect the EA-4's performance to be approx. 85% that of the Aristaeus. That's because the circuitry of the Aristaeus supposeldly approximates that of an HEV90, and my McAlister's performance is about 85% that of an HEV90.