True or False: There're only 4 different drivers in Grado lineup?

[QQQ]

QQQ you've clearly made your mind up on this and are not to be swayed by any amount of fact and logic.

Exactly!

[b0dhi]

Originally Posted by QQQ

Same basic construction, which makes 580\600 and 650 too close to be called "different"

All dynamic drivers have the same basic construction. That does not make them all the "same".

Further, you do not know exactly what the "tweaks", as you call them, are. You therefore don't know how much they affect the end result. I trust I don't have to point out that modifications that might seem insignificant to a layman, such as different diaphragm coatings, can in fact have a big impact on the final result. What is evident, however, based on the harmonic distortion measurements published at headroom, is that the 650 is a significantly lower distortion driver than the 580/600.

[QQQ]

All dynamic drivers have the same basic construction. That does not make them all the "same".

Oh thanks for opening my eyes up.
Let me clear some things up. Let's take Porta Pro and KSC-75 drivers. They're basically same, but Ksc-75's(which is also used in UR-40 etc.) drivers are titanium coated, which alters the sound of the driver considerably. Is this explanation any clearer?

[Solan]

You'll soon sound like ancient Greek philosophers: "But does this driver partake in Sameness, or does its animated nature mean that you can't listen to the Same driver twice?"

[b0dhi]

Originally Posted by QQQ

Oh thanks for opening my eyes up.
Let me clear some things up. Let's take Porta Pro and KSC-75 drivers. They're basically same, but Ksc-75's(which is also used in UR-40 etc.) drivers are titanium coated, which alters the sound of the driver considerably. Is this explanation any clearer?

Are you implying that the two drivers you've described are actually the same? I'm not sure what it is you're explaining.

[QQQ]

We're deep in offtopic, this is how i sound like.

[John E Woven]

This is my first axe. It is on the third handle and second head.

[wae5]

So what if it’s the same driver and Grado phones sound pretty much alike? I’m glad Grado figured out a way to continue to give bottom feeders excellent sound by putting the same driver in different housings with different cables and driver matching so the more expensive phones beguile high rollers into subsidizing the cheaper ones. Anything that keeps this American treasure and family business afloat also floats my boat.

[QQQ]

So what if...

Nothing, i'm just CURIOUS.
a lot of people seemingly think that i'm trying to put shame on Grado, and this is not in the case.
JUST CURIOUS.

[wae5]

Please don't get me wrong, I love this discussion. For a long time I've said I can't hear much (any?) difference between the Alessandro MS1 and MS2 using high quality sources and tube amplification but that doesn't mean others can't hear the difference. In any case it's a great blessing that there's ongoing discussions of whether and why Grados sound alike because this keeps the Grado flame burning bright.

[Zanth]

Originally Posted by QQQ

Nothing, i'm just CURIOUS.
a lot of people seemingly think that i'm trying to put shame on Grado, and this is not in the case.
JUST CURIOUS.

To be curious is to question. You are not questioning. You are masking statements with the allure of a question you are not intent on having answered because you have concluded before you have even begun. You have no factual basis for your "statements" yet when people offer opinions you don't waver from your initial premise. So instead of saying "I'm curious" you should have said "this is what I believe and I want to preach these claims to the masses...so who is with me?"

That would have been more appropriate and then those responding with alternate hypotheses wouldn't become so irate with your obstinacy in discussing nothing but your own hypotheses.

[grawk]

It'd be like if someone said:

I'm CURIOUS if QQQ still kills kittens. I've heard that there are kittens, and seen indications that suggests he still does.

[Grimloki]

Originally Posted by wae5

So what if it’s the same driver and Grado phones sound pretty much alike? I’m glad Grado figured out a way to continue to give bottom feeders excellent sound by putting the same driver in different housings with different cables and driver matching so the more expensive phones beguile high rollers into subsidizing the cheaper ones. Anything that keeps this American treasure and family business afloat also floats my boat.

Bottom feeders?

I think that the SR60 is to the GS1000 what the cMoy inna Altoids tin is to the Grado RA1 reference amp.

I wouldn't quite describe that dynamic as bottom feeders & high rollers... though I must admit I never thought that those expensive phones were subsidizing my cheap ones... finally a rational justification for a 1000% markup! Assuming of course that Grado loses money on $60 phones... which I seriously doubt.

Don't get me wrong. I respect the RA1 Reference Amp. Just because its $30 worth of parts, and uses a .50c opamp part at its heart, doesn't mean its bad. It means you can safely substitute 'cmoy' for 'grado ra-1' and 'altoids tin' for 'wooden case' in the following quotes lifted from the Grado site...

"With a tube-like rendering of timbre and a sweet, relaxed sound, the Grado RA-1 makes extended headphone listening a joy. Although battery-driven, the RA-1 is more at home in your equipment rack or on your desk than out on the road. A beautiful wooden case finishes off this gem."
- Reviewed By Robert Harley / Absolute Sound

"The RA1 offers excellent value for money, and does a fine job powering phones from Sennheiser, Shure and Ultimate Ears. It does especially well with Grado ‘phones and does not embarrass itself next to state of the art components."
- Phil Gold / Inner Ear Magazine

"When paired with the high-quality RS1 headphones, the RA1 delivers music that is clearer and more life-like than most speakers."
- Jason Alexander, Satellite Direct

"With the Grado Reference RA1 handling the amplification, music was rendered truer, clearer, and more life-like than I had ever imagined was possible."
- Willie Gluckstern, Audio Magazine

"This is such a nice job of product engineering by John Grado, I think it earns a nomination for "Dudely Product of the Year Award.""
- Charles (His Dudeliness) Hollander, Positive Feedback

"Listening to my RS1's through the Grado RA1 headphone amp is like listening to a live performance, it puts you right there."
- Mark Rivera, Saxophonist with the Billy Joel Band

[QQQ]

you should have said "this is what I believe and I want to preach these claims to the masses...so who is with me?"

No, it's not me, this is what inside your head. Please don't concoct, just re-read the thread title.

[Zanth]

Originally Posted by Duggeh

QQQ you've clearly made your mind up on this and are not to be swayed by any amount of fact and logic.

Originally Posted by QQQ

Exactly!

The thread title is the allure. It is the mask. You initiate a thread with a question and a hypothesis. People respond indicating how your initial premise is likely very wrong. You respond time and time again that you can't possibly be wrong and moreover, there may in fact be less than 4. Curiosity does not equate to obstinacy which is exactly what you are presenting in this thread. Responding to me that it is all in my head is yet again an indication that you don't know what you are talking about and you are trying to do sleight of hand to avoid the topic at hand.

I didn't concoct anything. I quoted you directly. What I read is what I quote and what I base my criticism on. Just because you entitle a thread doesn't mean one can't critically examine all of your contradictory posts which betray a question, betray curiosity and stink of egoism snobbery and rudeness.