REVIEW: Denon AH-D5000 (56k beware)

[leonid05]

Originally Posted by cotdt

you want example of headphones that use the same drivers? look at Koss then. prices range from $10 to $50, and they all use the same titanium drivers.

I was talking about headphones of double the price for nothing but optical reasons, as you claim. You say that would be "common business", I asked for examples, you didn`t have any and still don`t have.

btw, you're the one who was trying to invalidate my opinion, by saying that i've never heard these headphones side by side (which is true), HOWEVER, in a previous post i showed my reasoning as to why i thought they would sound the same, using scientific deduction.

I`m not trying to invalidate your opinion, you can think and believe whatever you want. I`d say it`s simply a matter of common sense that only a comparison can bring results, and not statements. That and nothing else did I say.
And what`s "scientific" in believing a more or less dubious source?
And nothing but that?

You indeed have an interest to keep your opinion, since (like I said) you went for the cheaper route. That has nothing to do with "invalidating your opinion" but is simply a matter of course.
Again, you can keep whatever point you like, I don`t mind to much.

Anyway, I stated nothing but my doubts, and if you don`t mind to much, I`d like to keep these until convinced otherwise.
Your arguments didn`t help to much regarding that, and I`m positive you can live with that.

[Skylab]

I think it's *possible* that the D5000 sounds better than the D2000 due to both the enclosure material, and the different cable. But I probably won't ever know - I have no intent of buying a pair of stock D2000's.

[cotdt]

Originally Posted by leonid05

I was talking about headphones of double the price for nothing but optical reasons, as you claim. You say that would be "common business", I asked for examples, you didn`t have any and still don`t have.



I`m not trying to invalidate your opinion, you can think and believe whatever you want. I`d say it`s simply a matter of common sense that only a comparison can bring results, and not statements. That and nothing else did I say.
And what`s "scientific" in believing a more or less dubious source?
And nothing but that?

You indeed have an interest to keep your opinion, since (like I said) you went for the cheaper route. That has nothing to do with "invalidating your opinion" but is simply a matter of course.
Again, you can keep whatever point you like, I don`t mind to much.

Anyway, I stated nothing but my doubts, and if you don`t mind to much, I`d like to keep these until convinced otherwise.
Your arguments didn`t help to much regarding that, and I`m positive you can live with that.

OK, I concede that this is the only example of a headphone manufacterer making a separate headphone only for cosmetic reasons. I was just saying that there are analogs to this business practice, but not for the same cosmetic reasons. It's not much of a stretch though. Makes perfect business sense to me to make a woody version.

This is a discussion. Of course you could beleive whatever you want, I'm just questioning the reasonable-ness of your opinions, which is what a discussion forum is about. So my question is: what makes a random forum member more easy to beleive than Japanese audiophiles in another forum? What is so "unreputable" about textbook enclosure theory?

Now if you made the enclosure larger, or changed the shape, then you can get a different sound. But if it's the same enclosure design using stiff, but different materials, then the frequency response would remain the same. Only the resonance frequencies would be different, but this is not significant for headphones, only high-output speakers.

[The Monkey]

^your position would be a lot easier to defend if you'd actually heard the D5000 yourself. Until then...

[003]

Originally Posted by cotdt

OK, I concede that this is the only example of a headphone manufacterer making a separate headphone only for cosmetic reasons.

Actually, I have a fairly strong argument to back up the fact that they do indeed sound different from each other.

First, lets talk about these Japanese people who compared the D5000 to the D2000. First and foremost, do you speak Japanese? Didn't think so. Neither do I. So unless we find somebody who is fluent in both English and Japanese, then the only way to translate the text if through spotty at best web page translators, such as google.

Second, do we know who it was that did the tests? Audiophiles? Random people off the street? People who would just as easily be impressed by the Skullcandy Skullcrushers? People who do or don't give a damn about audio? People who dislike headphones in general, or are heavily biased towards speakers? No, we don't really know that either.

Third, do we know what the source or equipment they used was? CDs? MP3s? Vinyl? Something else? And what kind of music did they use? Modern music with heavy dynamic range compression? We don't really know that either. And what about the amp they used? An iPod? A receiver? A nice headphone amp? We don't even know that. Do we even know what the test method was?

Also, lets not forget, they did mention that there was the "possibility of very minor differences". Very minor differences (and in some cases, no difference at all) to the average joe are night and day differences to the average head-fi member.

Now, lets take a look at Grado for a minute. There are plenty of people (some even on head-fi) who can not tell the difference between the SR-225 (even the SR-60) and the RS-1.

There also happens to be some evidence that would suggest that Grado uses the same drivers in all (or most) of their headphones. If that is indeed the case, then you can make your own conclusions.

To sum up my argument, I would be very surprised if there were not many differences between the two headphones.

[jay spec]

003...my memory might be a little fuzzy...but i seem to recall seeing a pic of the denons being tested via an ipod/tomahawk combo by the guys in japan? in the same thread as that pic...i believe someone was also translating the impressions being posted as well.

[cotdt]

I'm sure someone will eventually be able to listen to both of these headphones and put this matter to rest. I have a system set up for A/B testing of headphones so if somebody wants to send me their D5000... Until then, I will rely on well-established theory.

Grado uses different but similar drivers, based on their treble qualities. But otherwise the SR225 and RS-1 does sound very similar.

Based on the Denon website, there are strong suggestions that the D2000 and D5000 use the same drivers, AND the same enclosure (just with different materials).

[drizek]

Originally Posted by Skylab

Ummm...read up a few pages...he is absolutely doing that, and I get to check out a pair for a few days to compare to the D5000

Oh, OK. I thought he was just going to recable them.

[drizek]

Originally Posted by leonid05

I was talking about headphones of double the price for nothing but optical reasons, as you claim. You say that would be "common business", I asked for examples, you didn`t have any and still don`t have.

The IM716 uses an er4p driver but costs half as much. There you go.

And need I mention Bose, which sell for several hundred dollars and actually sound worse than headphones that cost half as much. Its all just marketing/brand name recognition.

Etymotic for example wanted to move more product but didnt want to devalue their er4 line. They just sold off their drivers to Altec who put them in a white case and sold them for as low as $60 at one point on amazon.

[procreate]

Originally Posted by drizek

The IM716 uses an er4p driver but costs half as much. There you go.

Too bad the soundstage has also been cut in half …

Originally Posted by drizek

Etymotic for example wanted to move more product but didnt want to devalue their er4 line. They just sold off their drivers to Altec who put them in a white case and sold them for as low as $60 at one point on amazon.

Don! Doooon! They're doing it again!

[Andrew_WOT]

Originally Posted by 003

Actually, I have a fairly strong argument to back up the fact that they do indeed sound different from each other.

How many head-fiers are teachers?
Posts 16 and 24.
And also nina has some impressions in his blog.
Sold

[drizek]

Originally Posted by procreate

Too bad the soundstage has also been cut in half

Ive never heard anyone say that before.

[003]

Just did something I shouldn't have... I ordered a pair of D5000s.

[Gil Schwartzman]

Originally Posted by 003

Just did something I shouldn't have... I ordered a pair of D5000s.

Whooo!

More impressions are always a good thing.

[Nebby]

Originally Posted by 003

Just did something I shouldn't have... I ordered a pair of D5000s.

Mine are probably waiting for me at the delivery company back home