Proline 750/2500 or better amp for HD650?

[pbirkett]

So I have had my HD650 for a good couple of years now and a few months ago i felt they were just too laid back for my tastes. I saught to do something about it. At first, I bought a Behringer Sonic Exciter, which to be fair, does seem to go some way to "deveiling" the Sennheiser sound. I am actually reasonably happy with the way they sound using this device.

At the time though, I was on a bit of a downer with the HD650 so I bought a pair of Grado SR80 hoping to get some more excitement from my music. After a while though, the fact that the Grados were lacking in bass for my tastes and ultimately, lacking in overall sound quality have meant that i really havent bothered using them much. I dont know what went on in my head that day, but its cost me a few quid thats for sure.

So I've done a bit of reading, and as far as I can tell I have two options (hence the topic of this thread).

I can either try and make the HD650 even more exciting to listen to. Now I think the "Sonic Exciter" has done this anyway, but I cant help but feel that its somehow a little artificial / fake, and its also one extra set of cables and device that does not need to be there. So ultimately, a better amp may be the solution. That said, in my last thread, the amp was slagged off, I dont know why because what ultimately limited reviews of it suggested it was the kind of forward, dynamic amp that is needed to wake up the Senns, the only problem with it was the fact that it it doesnt have a great amount of gain, but in normal music listening, that is not a problem at all.

The other is that i go for another set of cans, the Proline 750 or 2500. Easier to drive, and much more bass and perhaps more clarity than the Senn. I have what i consider to be a good source, and the amp, while not a world beater, i feel is good enough for the senns, so it should be more than good enough for the Proline.

The intention would be to sell the Senn and the "Exciter" and have a jack of all trades headphone. So what should I do? Stick with what I have? Get a better amp for the Senns - i like an exciting, clear sound, and the amp i have is touted as being such, or should i go with the Proline?

[Jaska]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

I dont know what went on in my head that day, but its cost me a few quid thats for sure.

I remember reading your thread(s) when you went ahead with the decision to pick up the Grados. I somehow think you'll (re)take to them at the end of all of this

[HeadphoneAddict]

I found that a good cable takes away the veil of the Sennheiser, and adds some more layering and energy to the music. Combine that with a good amp, and you will probably be happy for a while.

I like my Ultrasones, but typically don't expect someone who likes HD650 and dislikes SR-80 to then be happy with the Ultrasone. If you liked the Grado sound and the HD650 sound, I think the PL2500 is an interesting mix of the two's best qualities - bass, soundstage, detail, energy, clarity.

[pbirkett]

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict

I found that a good cable takes away the veil of the Sennheiser, and adds some more layering and energy to the music. Combine that with a good amp, and you will probably be happy for a while.

I like my Ultrasones, but typically don't expect someone who likes HD650 and dislikes SR-80 to then be happy with the Ultrasone. If you liked the Grado sound and the HD650 sound, I think the PL2500 is an interesting mix of the two's best qualities - bass, soundstage, detail, energy, clarity.

I probably would have liked the SR80, but there were two problems: Bass or a lack of it... the speed of the bass was good, but just not enough (nowhere near). The second problem was it seems to have a kind of grainy sound. Not smooth.

Add to that I think I quite like the spaciousness of the Sennheiser. I just figured the Proline might give me the more upfront sound, as well as the bass, but I am not sure whether it sounds smooth and/or natural with it?

[outbreak123]

Btw, which guys do you think better overall, 2500 or 750? I've always thinking about picking a pair.

[Kees]

Originally Posted by outbreak123

Btw, which guys do you think better overall, 2500 or 750? I've always thinking about picking a pair.

The 2500 are (IMO clearly) better than the 750.
The 750 have a hollow echo effect in the midrange that the 2500 don't have and the bass of the 2500 is tighter and (I think) slightly deeper than the 750.

[Kees]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

I probably would have liked the SR80, but there were two problems: Bass or a lack of it... the speed of the bass was good, but just not enough (nowhere near). The second problem was it seems to have a kind of grainy sound. Not smooth.

Add to that I think I quite like the spaciousness of the Sennheiser. I just figured the Proline might give me the more upfront sound, as well as the bass, but I am not sure whether it sounds smooth and/or natural with it?

I find the PROline not really upfront. Midrange is somewhat recessed even (I did a mod on the 2500 that improved that considerably though: just stick some self adhesive felt on the metal cover behind the pads).
In the long run the HD650 are better IMO, but they do need an amp that matches them well. If you don't mind it to be an amp that is good for high impedance phones only you could consider the (standard, classic) Earmax for instance.

[outbreak123]

Originally Posted by Kees

The 2500 are (IMO clearly) better than the 750.
The 750 have a hollow echo effect in the midrange that the 2500 don't have and the bass of the 2500 is tighter and (I think) slightly deeper than the 750.

Thanks man, i've been tempted to buy them because of quite good price here (200$) and they priced exactly the same. Maybe i'll pickup a 2500 but i still don't know the difference between them, except that 2500 is open and 750 is closed.

Will they sounds great w/o an Amp?

[Kees]

Originally Posted by outbreak123

Thanks man, i've been tempted to buy them because of quite good price here (200$) and they priced exactly the same. Maybe i'll pickup a 2500 but i still don't know the difference between them, except that 2500 is open and 750 is closed.

Will they sounds great w/o an Amp?

They do better with a good amp (best with Rudistor for some reason), but they are not so amp dependent as most phones seem to be. They are ok without an amp (straight from my Cowon D2 or Trekstor, I have to turn up the volume, but they sound just fine).

EDIT: let's not derail this thread any further. If you want to know more just PM me.

[Shahrose]

go for the prolines. if you're looking for a more forward (but not harsh) exciting sound with better quality (and quantity for that matter) bass, then try them. i don't know why you're trying to spend so much money on the hd650s to transform them into a totally new headphone.

btw, the prolines require very little amplification to sound good, compared to the hd650s.

[pbirkett]

Righto well i've been reading this forum for hours on end and having a good long think about it, and I've decided I will get the Proline 2500's, I think it sounds like they will be right up my street... something that is like a mixture of the Grado and Sennheiser traits - that is, plenty of bass, speed and clarity, which is just what I'm after.

[outbreak123]

good luck on your purchase then.

[Contrastique]

Congrats on your future purchase! They sound nothing like your hd650's so that'll be very interesting. And now, prepare for the MAJOR burn-in

Maybe of interest to you:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f10/fs...2500-a-308969/

[sacd lover]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

Righto well i've been reading this forum for hours on end and having a good long think about it, and I've decided I will get the Proline 2500's, I think it sounds like they will be right up my street... something that is like a mixture of the Grado and Sennheiser traits - that is, plenty of bass, speed and clarity, which is just what I'm after.

Unfortunately, the worst of Grado and Sennheiser traits IMO .... grating, sibilant treble and recessed muddy midrange to name two. I own the Senn 580, 600, Alessandro MS2i and modded MS1's. I like both Senns and Grados but I despise the PL 2500. I bought a pair last year and I sold them the next day. People will tell you that this will change with 400-500 hours burn in. But, I listened to a pair with supposedly 1000 hours on them recently and they still sound AWFUL to me; on tubes or with SS.

[pbirkett]

Originally Posted by sacd lover

Unfortunately, the worst of Grado and Sennheiser traits IMO .... grating, sibilant treble and recessed muddy midrange to name two. I own the Senn 580, 600, Alessandro MS2i and modded MS1's. I like both Senns and Grados but I despise the PL 2500. I bought a pair last year and I sold them the next day. People will tell you that this will change with 400-500 hours burn in. But, I listened to a pair with supposedly 1000 hours on them recently and they still sound AWFUL to me; on tubes or with SS.

Interesting.

I havent actually pulled the trigger on these yet.

One thing I heard was that the Proline use titanium drivers. I must admit, the last time I used a headphone utilising titanium drivers were the Goldring DR150, and I have to admit that they did have a kind of hard, metallic sound to them, which was pretty awful.

From what you are saying, these could wind up being the same?

Maybe I should just bite the bullet, prepare my wallet for a raping, and get the Grado RS-1 i've always fancied getting, but always put off because they are so damn expensive. I'd definitely be interested in those if they have a warmer, bassier sound than the SR-80. The SR-80 are fundamentally fun headphones, but compared to the HD650, the sound quality is lacking (severely).

Edited to add : 500 hours burn in seems proposterous to me, that is none stop use for 3 weeks! I am always a bit skeptical at some of the claims for burn in times. I wonder how much of it is purely psychological - i.e. the listener getting aclimatized to the sound rather than anything actually changing.