OK, so i've limited my choices down to these....still need help!

[jpscool4u]

I am in the market for full-size headphones. They will be mainly used at home, but also sometimes portable, with an iPod Classic, and I will buy a portable amp to go with it.

I have limited my choices down to the following, but i need help figuring out which one would be best for me. I have written the lowest prices i could find (new) in parentheses, if you've seen it for less, please let me know

Sennheiser HD 650 ($280)
Sennheiser HD 600 ($250)
Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro ('03) ($260)
Beyerdynamic DT 880 New ('05) ($206)
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro ('03) ($200)
Beyerdynamic DT 990 New ('05) ($270)
Denon AH-D2000 ($200)
AKG K701 ($263) (or the K702 when it's released)
Grado SR325i ($288)

So basically, i've found them all new on websites for less than $300. I was surprised by some of the pricing (the 990's being so much more than the 990 Pro's, yet the 880's were considerably less than the 880 Pro's)

Ok, so here is my criteria for the headphones.
I will be mainly listening to them at home, plugged into a 24/96 sound card (Creative X-Fi Expresscard), with mainly FLAC music, and some MP3 (mostly V0/32), and if necessary, for some of them with high impedance, I can use my powered speakers/monitors as a pre-amp/amp (M-Audio AV30's). I actually have no idea whether they would do a good job of that, since they're not really designed for use as a headphone amp.

I will also sometimes be using these portable. I don't mind wearing huge headphones on-the-go, and to those who say "full-size requires full-size amp", is that really true? Will i really not be able to power them (specifically the higher impedance ones like the HD 650's etc.) with a decent portable amp?

Speaking of amp, what would be the best portable amp, less than $150 (preferably less than $100 if possible) about the size of an iPod Classic? I want to be able to strap them back to back (the amp and the ipod). (And no, I can't build myself a Mini^3 or a cmoy) I don't mind going on ebay for the amp, or buying off the forums, as long as my purchase would be reliable (can they break or have problems easily, where I would need a warranty?) After searching for a while, the 2 that I like a little are the iBasso D2, and the Practical Devices XM4. Which is better for me? And are there any other good ones for my price range?

What about a DAC? (For portable, or at home use) Are they necessary? I know it means digital-to-analog converter, but I'm not really sure why it is, or whether it is necessary. Why can't it stay digital? Does a DAC take a FLAC CD rip and make it sound more like vinyl or something? I don't really get it. I think it has something to do with just changing digital sound into line-level, but i'm not really sure what that means/what that does, and don't most sound cards (at least the good ones) do that themselves? I know a DAC is part of some desktop amps, but i don't know whether they're in any portable amps, and if they are, those are probably way out of my price range.

Also, i don't have the slightest idea why these 6 inch interconnect cables used to connect ipods to amps, whether they're mini-to-mini, or LOD (dock-to-mini), cost $50! Is it a high quality cable? Or is it because they have stitching on them to make them flexible? If would figure they should cost 5 or 10.... seems kinda outrageous to charge $50 on a little cable - they aren't cardas's or anything!

So as for my music taste - i only listen to music since 1960. So no classical music for me. Most of my library is rock, with some other genre's mixed in (pop, reggae, a little hip hop) with bands ranging from 60's (Beatles, etc.) to 70's and 80's (let's see - The Who, Elton John, Bon Jovi, Foreigner, Journey, The Clash, Queen, Eric Clapton, Bruce Springsteen, Don Mclean, Dire Straits, The Eagles, U2, Bob Marley etc.), to newer stuff (Red Hot Chili Peppers, White Stripes, Raconteurs, Linkin Park, All-American Rejects, Black-Eyed Peas, The Offspring, Coldplay etc.)

I like a good thump in my bass - as in heaviness. I like to "feel" my music. I own the Shure SE530's (E500), and i like the bass response in those, but I know that with full-size cans, I can expect a lot more "oomph". I want a big "oomph". I know that the HD 650's are considered to have the strongest bass, but there may be a problem with the whole portable-amp issue. I need that cleared up. (whether it'll be loud enough at all - i don't need "full-potential" as people say, as long as it still sounds heavenly. I have seen many people here reccommend the HD 600's for the sole reason that the 650's are just too hard to power, but I have also heard that the 600's are nothing compared to the 650's in sound quality. If the 650's with a portable amp sound better than the 600's with an amp, even though the 650's may not be at their full potential, then it's still worth it for me to get the 650's for the $20 price difference based on prices that I found). I've also heard that of the Beyerdynamics, the 990's have good bass, and the 880's don't. But then i read one reviewer here that said they don't agree with that at all, and he thought that the 880's did have good bass. Also, i did read the thread explaining the differences between the Pro's and the new ones, but i'm not really sure which would be better for me. Also people say that for some people the 880's are better than the 990's.

As for the rest of the sound - I don't just like bass. I want "well-rounded" range. I want good mid's and high's too, but not too bright. When I listen to music with my SE530's, I generally use a custom EQ similar to "rock", which has the low's (bass) and high's (treble) boosted the most, but that doesn't mean I want the treble "bright". Kinda hard to explain since i don't know all the terminology. I like the sound of powered speakers with a small tweeter and 5 - 8 inch woofers. I like the whole feel of the music from them, the soundstage, stereo spread, and the balance of the low's, mid's and high's. I assume that a good pair of full-size headphones will be like strapping a monitor on each ear, and that is what I want (other than the weight of course.) And regarding the quality of my music, about 20%-25% of my library is lossless, about 60% is V0/320 MP3, and less than 15% is V2/192 MP3. Are the MP3's "imperfections" (especially the V2/192) going to be "overexposed" with full-size headphones? As in, once I start using these, will the only music that sounds good in it be lossless (or high bitrate MP3)? In most of my music I can always tell when I'm listening with my SE530's or my M-Audio monitors, what format i'm listening to (low bitrate MP3, high bitrate MP3, or lossless), but it doesn't bother me too much. Will it be even worse with the headphones? I want my music to "sparkle"!

As for comfort, that will be a biggie for me. I looked at pictures of the beyerdynamics, the sennheisers, and the AKG's, and they all seem to be pretty cushion-y. When I look at pictures of the grado's, they look incredibly uncomfortable. I'm not sure if it's just me. Also i'm not sure how the Denon's feel, so if someone knows that would be helpful.

Finally, the whole portable thing doesn't mean I need the Denon's, because they're closed. Portable may mean that I will be using them in a car, or in a quiet room in school, it just means that I won't be able to make a proper audio setup with my computer, so I will need a portable amp. It's not like I'm going jogging or anything.

Also, if anyone knows anywhere that has lower prices than what I listed (They were all J&R and amazon, except the Denon's) please let me know. I assume that what I found for the HD 600's and the beyer's aren't the lowest.

Thank you SO much for your time and help.

[TehNomad]

Just FYI, the DT990 and DT880 are similar and you can do a quick mod to switch between the two.

For price/performance, the D2000 sounds like a good deal for you. It has a reputation for having nice bass. It also doesn't require much to drive them, unlike the Senns and the Beyers you mentioned.

The iBasso D2 also is a good buy.

Your sound card probably has a DAC, but it's probably not the highest quality. The best option ideally would be to have a sound card digital out-->external DAC-->headphone amp-->headphones

[spronkey]

Depending on how you'd carry them, D2000s have a reputation for breaking at the pivot screw, so that's something to consider. I'm not entirely confident that my HD580s would be too sturdy travelling in a bag either, and HD600s/650s are largely similar.

The beyers look quite a bit more solid than the others, but I've never held a pair so I can't say for sure.

[kingmajix]

Based on your listening preferences, I'd say the 880 '05 should be off your list. I found the bass to be accurate but there was no thump. I listen to mainly hip hop/electronic and I found the 880s to be analytical and not much "fun" to listen to when compared to my 770s.

Not saying the 880s are bad (they revealed instrument and vocal subtleties in songs that I never knew were there) I just don't think they'll work for you.

Scott

[jpscool4u]

OK, so a couple questions.

Regarding the DAC/amp, why do i need a DAC if the iPod has a DAC built-in (and apparently has hi-fi quality)? Even if i use a LOD (Pocketdock Line Out), won't it have already be converted to analog? Anyway....you can only use the DAC in the iBasso D2 using USB from a computer, and you can't do that with an iPod. And for when I use my headphones with my laptop, do I really need an external DAC? I have a Creative X-Fi Sound Blaster 24/96 external soundcard (expresscard), which has optical and line out, so shouldn't I just use that and output it to a headphone amplifier? I assume the sound card can do a decent enough job as a DAC, no?

Also, if in fact don't need the DAC, what portable amp should I get? I want it to be about the size of an iPod Classic, and around $170/$150 or less. I don't want to bother spending $170 on the iBasso D2 if i won't use the DAC. Is the Practical Devices XM4 good? What about the Little Dot MKI? I want somethat that can at least decently power the HD 650's, in case I get them. Or should I just totally forgo the 650's and go with one of the beyer's? The denon's are good, but from what i've heard, closed headphones are nothing compared to open ones. And since I managed to find them all pretty cheap (especially the 650's), i figure I should just get 2 pairs. $600 for 2 good pairs of headphones and a good amp is a pretty good deal, considering most of these headphones each retail for about $600 alone.

Also, for the interconnect, should I get 1 cable that's ipod dock to minijack, or should I get the pocketdock line out and then just use minijack-to-minijack

Is there anything special about those interconnect cables that cost $50-$100? I see them on ebay and other places, they just look like regular cables with stitching on the outside. Do they sound better? Do i need them? Where can I get a cheap ($20?) interconnect cable? Since i'll be using the amp with my computer, I figure that getting the pocketdock adapter and then just a mini-to-mini, but if dock-to-mini AND mini-to-mini will work out cheaper, i'll do that.

Also, since I can get the HD 650 on JR.com for $270 now after rebate, should I get them in addition to the denon's? (I'm not made of money, but if i'll end up getting them in a year, I don't want to pay more - $270 for them is REALLY cheap.)

Could I use the denon's when i'm on the go, and then the 650's with my laptop (since they're open)? Will a cheap-ish amp ($150ish) that i'll use for the denon's be able to power the HD 650's?

Please explain .... i'm kinda noobish with all this audio stuff compared to you guys.

Oh yeah, and finally....are the cables on the Denon's and the Senn's really long? If i use them (mainly the Denon's) on-the-go, I only want around a 1 meter cable, definitely max 2. If i can get shorter cables, I can't afford the cardas $200 ones. I would pay a max of $50 for it (and it's mainly for the denon's which i don't even know have removable cables)

thanks alot

[nylan8301]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you really willing to use a 300-500 USD portable rig out in public? I know the public generally wouldn't know great headphones from a stick in the mud, but I really think you should get a pair for home, and a cheaper (but decent) pair for travel.

For use with your laptop, it is best to get a USB DAC. Search in the source forum for some tips.

You can then get a good, solid portable amp for both home use and on-the-go. You seem to have some good ideas as to which amp, but I think you should consider the possibility of theft. Even a portable amp will offer a better sound to a high-imp headphone.

Nylan

[jpscool4u]

Originally Posted by nylan8301

Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you really willing to use a 300-500 USD portable rig out in public? I know the public generally wouldn't know great headphones from a stick in the mud, but I really think you should get a pair for home, and a cheaper (but decent) pair for travel.

For use with your laptop, it is best to get a USB DAC. Search in the source forum for some tips.

You can then get a good, solid portable amp for both home use and on-the-go. You seem to have some good ideas as to which amp, but I think you should consider the possibility of theft. Even a portable amp will offer a better sound to a high-imp headphone.

Nylan

I'm willing to use them in public. I don't mean on NYC streets, I mean like taking it to school with me, where I can't set them up with my computer, and all I have is my ipod.

If i only buy 1 thing (dac/amp), is it really worth buying a DAC/amp when i can't use the DAC with my ipod, only with my laptop?

Should I just get the Little Dot MKI and use it with my hi-fi sound card?
And as for getting 2 pairs - i am considering getting an open pair (HD650 or beyers) for home, and using the denon's with my ipod since theyre closed.

but i will need to buy the amp or dac/amp, and interconnect cables (LOD etc.) and other stuff so i need to know how much i should spend on those....

thanks

[REB]

Originally Posted by jpscool4u

OK, so a couple questions.

Regarding the DAC/amp, why do i need a DAC if the iPod has a DAC built-in (and apparently has hi-fi quality)? Even if i use a LOD (Pocketdock Line Out), won't it have already be converted to analog?

You're right, you won't need a portable DAC, the iPod has one built-in (although I wouldn't say it's hifi quality)

I have a Creative X-Fi Sound Blaster 24/96 external soundcard (expresscard), which has optical and line out, so shouldn't I just use that and output it to a headphone amplifier? I assume the sound card can do a decent enough job as a DAC, no?

I don't know your soundcard, but if I were you, I'd invest in an amp first. You can always get an external DAC later. For me BTW, a quite cheap Zero DAC made a world of difference when I put it between my soundcard and my amp.

I don't think I would try to use my HD600 in public. It is too liable to get broken and amping is really hard. I have Graham Slee Voyager portable amp which does a more than decent job with the HD600, but it's not in the same league as my stationary amp (GS Solo).

Also, for the interconnect, should I get 1 cable that's ipod dock to minijack, or should I get the pocketdock line out and then just use minijack-to-minijack?

Depends if you're going to hook up your source to an amp later. If so, it's easier to use a pocketdock line out and then a minijack to RCA. If not, you might as wel buy the complete cable.

Is there anything special about those interconnect cables that cost $50-$100? I see them on ebay and other places, they just look like regular cables with stitching on the outside. Do they sound better?

My interconnect was about 75 dollars (Microshar) and I can barely hear the difference when compared to cheaper LODs. So I'm a bit skeptical about the use of really expensive interconnects.

Based upon your music preferences, I'd go with a Beyerdynamic DT990 or Sennheiser HD600/650 (if you like to feel your bass, forget about the AKG K701) and buy a (cheap) portable phone as well (beyerdynamic DT231, AT ATH-ES7). There is the cable issue with non-portable phones (too long, not sturdy), the phones themselves aren't meant for that kind of use and transportation, SQ is compromised and open phones aren't the most convenient when used as portables.

That's my 2 cents.... Good luck and welcome to Head-fi and sorry for your wallet !

[subtle]

Regarding your musical interests, budget, and desire for portability, I would look no further than a Grado.

The 325i might be to your lacking, however I would go with the SR-225 first in order to see if the Grado sound is to your liking. If you turn out to love it, I would just stay content with the 225's until you can afford to make up the difference and upgrade to the RS-1. I believe the RS-1 will turn out to be the headphone you are really looking for in the long run.

[yashicaman]

For just knocking around, I'd run with a pair of Grado SR-60s. You can get by with them unamped. Then I'd consider a higher end pair of cans for home use. I like the Grado 325i's and have a pair that I use at work/home (not for knocking around though--too big). Have a listen to (if you can) the Senns, the AKGs, the Beyers, and the Denons and then pick. I hesitate to offer a firm recommendation on pricey phones (but will on the relatively inexpensive ones). Many like the Grado 225's for rock 'n' roll and many regard this is the model to get when in doubt and the bank account is overflowing.

Good luck,

Cheers!