K701 Ups and Downs (mostly ups)

[spraggih]

I have been on an up & down rollercoaster with the K701s. Cool ups, less than exciting downs, real cool neck snapping twists, rough turns...

I truly believe it is one of the most accurate phones I (or for that matter others) have heard. Here is my commentary:

Sometimes after listening to a song (mostly 1970s - 1990 songs), I say,
"hmmm that was kind of boring and in my car audio the song sounds a little better"

then another song plays and I say,
"Wow - I never heard it like that before. I mean I heard the guitar before but it never had that thick texture... or the soundstaging is pretty engulfing... or I did not know the beat changed a little on this part... or wow I hear a triangle or some kind of bell far far to the left of my ear - its faint (on purpose) but now I can hear it."

then on another song I say
"Nice... nothing out of whack"

then on another song I say
"MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM... TASTY!! WOW!! MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM... Solomon Grundy hungry!!!"

then on another song I say
"Back to earth..."

I'm all about accuracy (REALLY) but does anyone feel the K701s take some of the musicality out? of either poorer recordings or recordings that are naturally a little slower (not real slow - the K701s do that well also).

I am listening to Lossless, 320K and sometimes 192K songs (very limited) from (iPod 5G or laptop or Squeezeboz) >> (line out, USB, RCA) >> Cordia Aria >> K701.

[fewtch]

My question would be, take the musicality out as compared to which other headphones? Never heard of an absolute basis for musicality (which itself is relative to what your ears like to hear).

[spraggih]

fewtch>> Hey there! have not seen you around these parts in a while. (Not sure if I have been away or you )

OK - you got me on the subjective term "musicality"... but what I mean is either:

* the song makes you tap your feet or bob your head or sing along or snap your fingers or move your hands like a conductor OR

* the inferior qualities are overlooked or compensated for and you can only hear the good parts.

Musicality, registered trademark of spraggih, 2006, all rights reserved

[Kees]

When a low budget 80's record that was recorded (and tweaked) to sound well on average 80's play back equipment meets a K701 it will inevitably fall short...And your car stereo will no doubt make it sound better for the obvious reason that it probably matches the recording better. The K701 is not to blame, it just lets you hear things you were not supposed to hear and does not add things that were supposed to be added....Accuracy is not always a blessing I'm affraid.

[omendelovitz]

I'm using the equipment listed in my sig below, and find the 701's fine sounding to me. I pretty much encode all my music in alt lame extreme (I can't tell the difference b/w that encoding and lossless... God knows I've tried) There are lot's of pop and rock songs I listen to where I'm still boppin to the beat!

[Alu]

I really can't be taken seriously, as I've never heard another can compared to those AKG K701, but they're making me tap my foot to Pink Floyd at this very moment. I think that they're very good for the huge variety of genres that I listen to: Progressive Rock, Jazz, Classical, and Soundtracks. I don't really know how much musical something can be, but I think they're pretty "musical" alright, if I understand the term correctly.

Nonetheless I'll upgrade my amp some time soon to an MPX3 and I'll also try some Sennheisers (got a HF-1 coming my way already), in order to hear the different sonic signatures first hand. I admit that I'd prefer a warmer sound sometimes (and this from someone who's coming from ROTEL amplification ), but I guess this still would depend on the respective recording of an album, and I'm hoping that tubes will help here as well. AFAIK the Aria already does have a rather "tubey" sound to it as some people claimed.

My K701 aren't fully "burnt in" yet (maybe some 150-200 hours), but I *think* that I can hear a definite improvement, and this improvement being it not as tiring anymore, more bass, and more enjoyment on my part. I still don't really believe in burn-in though, I think it's more about my brains getting used to the sound, because I don't let it run when I'm not using it.

Anyone else using crossfeed for some songs or albums? I don't really know whether to use it on Bill Evans' Trio albums (Waltz for Debby and Sunday at the Village Vanguard), because I don't want to miss out on the incredible detail, but sometimes I think that it might be more appropriate. I'm not that huge a fan of this feature, but it's pretty neat to have as option.

[omendelovitz]

I know that many don't believe in burn-in/difference in cabling (I do, but that's unimportant)... I will say that wait until you reach 200-250 hours at the very least before you expect the full transition to the normative k701 sound. I found at a measured 200 hours (I used a burn in CD), I noticed an improvement in bass and highs. (I listened to specific songs at specific intervals inbetween the burn-in process).

enjoy them anyway. You'll notice a definite difference b/w them and the HF-1's.

[Asr]

One of the biggest drawbacks to the K701 is what it does to soundstage. It has a unique ability to separate out the instruments, so you can hear every one of them on their own level. It works as a great agent for clearing up passages that would get "congested" on other headphones, but of course it doesn't result in an accurate true-to-the-recording soundstage.

The instrument separation also creates a "displacement" type effect that pushes back some layers (usually vocals) and brings forward others (guitars and bass-type instruments).

It's kind of a love/hate thing. You either like this effect or you don't. Apart from that, the K701 really is an amazing headphone. Very detailed, excellent balance. Not as extended in the highs as the DT880 though.

[silence57]

(hint...hint...GRADO) and hard to drive. Otherwise, best all-around mid-priced phone.

[drarthurwells]

Originally Posted by Asr

One of the biggest drawbacks to the K701 is what it does to soundstage. It has a unique ability to separate out the instruments, so you can hear every one of them on their own level. It works as a great agent for clearing up passages that would get "congested" on other headphones, but of course it doesn't result in an accurate true-to-the-recording soundstage.

The instrument separation also creates a "displacement" type effect that pushes back some layers (usually vocals) and brings forward others (guitars and bass-type instruments).

It's kind of a love/hate thing. You either like this effect or you don't. Apart from that, the K701 really is an amazing headphone. Very detailed, excellent balance. Not as extended in the highs as the DT880 though.

No, it is an accurate representation of the soundstage, that is true to the recording. When you lose this separation of instruments then it is the component that is at fault: headphone, amp or source.

Recordings do differ as to how well they image instruments - some blend them together and some separate them. But no component can separate them out beyond what is the in the recording, as you suggest - this would be impossible.

What you want are components that maintain the separate imaging in the recording without blending them together. The Sony SA5000 is slightly better at this than the K701. Either are better than the HD650 in this regard.

Amps are the problem in blending tone images together and losing the separation of them that is in the recording. Headphones and sources are also culprits.

[spraggih]

I am a weird bird.

I am commenting on the burn-in posts...

I believe in speaker burn-in; because the parts are larger and have a lot of power pushing through and physically move when music is played through them and (in my mind) logically expand / contract a bit so they need a break-in period.

I question headphone (ear speaker) burn in; parts are so smaller and do they really need to breath / move?

I do not believe in burn-in for solid-state products. For me, it's like buying a new computer (using Windows) and getting the blue screen of death or having it perform slowly and calling the support desk to have them say, "Give them 100 hours of burn-in, promise you, the computer will get better." The parts are all computer chips and such - no movement.


OK - all of that to say AKG's probably have a unique sound and it takes our brains up to 100 hours (450 hrs) to get used to the sound.

Ever make a commentary that neither has a clear point, is in-line with the topic (that you yourself started) and will confuse hearers & readers alike? It's kind of like this post.

[mcryptic]

I've always wondered if anyone has measured the frequency response of headphones before and after a burn-in to see if anything changes?

[spinali]

I believe in speaker burn-in; because the parts are larger...

I question headphone (ear speaker) burn in; parts are so smaller and do they really need to breath / move?

Fair enough, though I think it's important to clear up terms. I have commented several times that headphone "burn-in" is a misleading; since it's a mechanical process, "break-in" is probably more accurate. And less controversial.

Another thing: headphones are just little speakers, and there's no reason why break-in shouldn't be equally possible with both floor speakers and headphones (not IEMs, which work under a different principle). The reason why the K701s take so long to break in is that it takes longer to build flexion into the small diaphragms.

Frankly, I didn't notice any appreciable break-in with my old DT-880s; but I noticed very distinct changes in sound with the K701 (particularly in the bass, and with a certain rawness that smoothed out). I mostly kept them in a drawer during break-in, so accomodation wasn't an issue.

If you break in a pair of shoes, why not headphones?

[spraggih]

spinali>> I was reading your write-up with a "willing to be educated" ear and was learning when I broke out in a chuckle at your last statement

If you break in a pair of shoes, why not headphones?

Good points.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by spraggih

I am a weird bird.


I do not believe in burn-in for solid-state products. For me, it's like buying a new computer (using Windows) and getting the blue screen of death or having it perform slowly and calling the support desk to have them say, "Give them 100 hours of burn-in, promise you, the computer will get better." The parts are all computer chips and such - no movement.

You've never tried overclocking a brand-new CPU vs that same cpu after synthetic burn-in (heavy arithmatic/ pi calculations) the results can some times be astonishing.