Wmcmanus - Thanks for clarifying even further, the reality of the situation; i.e., that we are unlikely to obtain such a headphone from Grado or Stax. Market realities, and the need to protect the market positions of ones products, rules. But, it still seems unreasonable that the best headphone ever produced, will just disappear, never to be revived. I hope that producing and marketing a lower cost headphone that matches or exceeds the performance of the HE90 will tempt some company, somewhere, at some time, which will be to all of our benefit.
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Originally Posted by mikeg
But, it still seems unreasonable that the best headphone ever produced, will just disappear, never to be revived. I hope that producing and marketing a lower cost headphone that matches or exceeds the performance of the HE90...
I think Stax will do it, but they've been slow to announce (and in fact haven't announced) anything about an Omega III (or whatever their next flagship product might be called). Their normal product development life cycle would suggest that another top model should at least by now be on the planning horizon, but no word yet. Chances are that when it does come along, the changes relative to the Omega and Omega II will be incremental and not revolutionary in any way. Some people already prefer the Omega II to the HE-90, so I'd very much doubt that Stax would completely revamp their approach.
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What I've heard is that Sennheiser had a big quality control problem with their HEV90 amps., and that this is the reason that they stopped producing their HE90 headphones. If that's true, then today's situation is quite different than it was two decades ago; i.e., several companies are now marketing perfectly good amps for driving electrostatic headphones, and more such amps are becoming available all of the time. So, all that a company such as Sennheiser, Stax, or Grado now needs to do is to produce and market a superior electrostatic headphone, *without* bothering with the development of a matching amplifier. Such companies can now leave the development and marketing of such amplifiers to others; i.e., there is no longer a need to market an electrostatic headphone and amp as a "matching pair." So, it seems to me, that this situation of having numerous electrostate headphone amps readily available, should make it much easier for both small and large firms to produce and market superior electrostatic headphones. This would also give lots of other small manufacturers the opportunity to develop and market all sorts of amps. for an expanding electrostatic headphone market, which I think is now happening anyway.
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
I think Stax will do it, but they've been slow to announce (and in fact haven't announced) anything about an Omega III (or whatever their next flagship product might be called). Their normal product development life cycle would suggest that another top model should at least by now be on the planning horizon, but no word yet. Chances are that when it does come along, the changes relative to the Omega and Omega II will be incremental and not revolutionary in any way. Some people already prefer the Omega II to the HE-90, so I'd very much doubt that Stax would completely revamp their approach.
My reason for thinking this is that the design and construction of the HE90 can be carefully studied by a competent manufacturer (e.g., in China), and then it should be possible to closely duplicate its design and construction. I think that this is called reverse engineering. In any case, since the Chinese have successfully duplicated many of the West's rocket, computer, and weapons technology, it should be fairly easy for some Chinese firm to do the same with the 20+ year-old technology of the HE90.
Oh boy, don't make me laugh on this one. They can't even duplicate 2nd rate Soviet technology let alone 1st line Western stuff. They can't make the engines for Vietnam era Soviet jet fighters since they don't have the materials technology, they can't even make & refine the alloys which go into those engines, nor can they machine them to the required tolerances.
Computers. Do they have a single chip fab that can crank out say, a Pentium IV CPU? Or the last couple generations of GeForce and Radeon GPUs? Nope. They have factories for assembling graphics cards and so forth, but anyone can shell out a few million bucks for Universal and Siemens SMT machines and do that. Which brings me to the next point, they can't even make those machines, they can't duplicate them even if they wanted to.
They don't have the machines which make the machines to make goods. The infrastructure and tech base isn't there. Think of a pyramid with the product you're trying to build at the top. Everything you need to build that product is under it, and has to be there in order for you to succeed. The Chinese don't have it, not even close.
the chinese currently excel in making high quantity low(er) value items like clothes, toys and some electronics.
production low quantity high(er) value items (golf clubs, small engines, radio eq, amps, speakers, microchips etc) are a distinct minority (or completely nonexistent) and usually of dubious quality and/or origin.
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I only used China symbolically. There are lots of other countries that this type of project can be subcontracted to. Are Germany, the US, and Japan the only countries that can assemble a high quality electrostatic headphone? I doubt it.
Originally Posted by adhoc
i would have to agree with this.
the chinese currently excel in making high quantity low(er) value items like clothes, toys and some electronics.
production low quantity high(er) value items (golf clubs, small engines, radio eq, amps, speakers, microchips etc) are a distinct minority (or completely nonexistent) and usually of dubious quality and/or origin.
I only used China symbolically. There are lots of other countries that this type of project can be subcontracted to. Are Germany, the US, and Japan the only countries that can assemble a high quality electrostatic headphone? I doubt it.
my goodness - why do you persist in going down this narrow (and lonely) path??!
do you have any idea of the logistics, let alone the cost, of starting an overseas operation? who is he going to hire? will he have to import talent? what about salaries? equipment? tax on that equipment? existing customers (and contracts) these subcontractors already have? language barriers? duties? taxes (overseas and local)? materials? QC? all it will take is one bad product to sink the hard-earned reputation of a boutique company like grado amongst newcomers to hifi. how many times is he going to have to come over each year to supervise things? how much is a return ticket to any european country? or singapore? or korea?
building an electrostat is not as easy as following A, then B, then C, then...
and all that for a market that is way smaller than that for dynamic headphones!
i can understand your desire to see grado soar - i honestly wish that too. but like icarus, i do not wish that desire to fly high be its undoing.
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You're right. It's time for me to hop off this treadmill. In time, perhaps others will take over.
Originally Posted by adhoc
my goodness - why do you persist in going down this narrow (and lonely) path??!
do you have any idea of the logistics, let alone the cost, of starting an overseas operation? who is he going to hire? will he have to import talent? what about salaries? equipment? tax on that equipment? existing customers (and contracts) these subcontractors already have? language barriers? duties? taxes (overseas and local)? materials? QC? all it will take is one bad product to sink the hard-earned reputation of a boutique company like grado amongst newcomers to hifi. how many times is he going to have to come over each year to supervise things? how much is a return ticket to any european country? or singapore? or korea?
building an electrostat is not as easy as following A, then B, then C, then...
and all that for a market that is way smaller than that for dynamic headphones!
i can understand your desire to see grado soar - i honestly wish that too. but like icarus, i do not wish that desire to fly high be its undoing.
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