How To Build One Of The World's Finest Dynamic Headphones (markl Denon AH-D5000 Mods)

[blubliss]

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus

The objectivist camp is still free (at this point in time anyway) to continue to rain on every other subjectivist parade about such matters. But that too will soon change.

Thank God for some sane words. It is depressing how changed, for the worse, this forum has become. Too many idiotic opinions, not enough just pure enjoyment. If someone can't hear the difference a cable makes, he/she should get their ears checked (unless they are listening on non-resolving equipment).


Beautiful job on the mods. Maybe someone will be willing to do this for us that are less patient.

[vcoheda]

Originally Posted by The Monkey

Why? Have you heard the mod?

i was thoroughly unimpressed with the D5000 when i heard them. i doubt any mod would make me fall in love them or put them in the same league as, or even close to, the R10.

[Gradofan2]

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo

I'd be very thankful if you could elaborate (I'm waiting for your review on the JVC DX1000) a bit more about how the R10, modded D5000 and DX1000 compare. Also if you think this type of resonance control mods could work well on the DX1000s.

"Wouldn't we all"... although... I'm a bit reluctant to place this additional burden on Markl. As we all know... such experimentation takes huge investments of time (not to mention money) - which few of us are willing to make.

But... it would be great... if some of you other "enterprising souls" would "blaze the trail" for the rest of us... on the DX1000s. I'd far rather "make the investment" (of money) in them, than the D5000s (all other things equal).

[Gradofan2]

Originally Posted by blubliss

... If someone can't hear the difference a cable makes, he/she should get their ears checked (unless they are listening on non-resolving equipment)...

Ah yes... another "objectivist," "subjectivist" - I'm not alone.

[Cool_Torpedo]

Originally Posted by Gradofan2

"Wouldn't we all"... although... I'm a bit reluctant to place this additional burden on Markl. As we all know... such experimentation takes huge investments of time (not to mention money) - which few of us are willing to make.

But... it would be great... if some of you other "enterprising souls" would "blaze the trail" for the rest of us... on the DX1000s. I'd far rather "make the investment" (of money) in them, than the D5000s (all other things equal).

Well, the idea wasn't really that Mark tried to mod the DX1000s -which btw I don't even know how to to pull the earpads off-, but just to know if in his opinion for the DX1000's sound and how the D5000's one changed after the mods, he would expect any worth improvements in the DX1000s performance.
It's not that I find them "faulty" but they leave room for improvement IMHO.

Regards

[markl]

Howdy all,
Thanks for the kind words; it really was a "labor of love".


I should add that I know there are folks here who think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the stock Denon D5000. Obviously, for those people, there would be no point in doing this mod. There will always be people who like the sound of 12 subwoofers in the trunk, and that's fine.

However, if your impressions of the stock D5000 match mine, then you owe it to yourself to give these mods a try.

Alternatively, if you have only a minor issue with the Denon's bass, and wouldn't mind a little improvement/tightening, but are afraid of going all-out, I would suggest the following:

1. Do the ear pad mod. This should be mandatory no matter what.
2. Apply the circle of Dynamat (with center hole) to the smaller butt of the driver.
3. Apply the layer of Dynamat to the inside of the ear cup.

You will end up with a phone that is about half way between the overblown stock phone and the "perfectly balanced" full set of mods. It will still rattle your skull a bit, but you wil experience a very solid degree of tightening.


What I would really love to see is someone take the Denon drivers and transplant them into another headphone frame (one with good build quality), and possibly create a new larger wooden enclosure shaped sort of the like the R10s. Of course, all that is well beyond my capabilities.

It seems like the (Denon) engineers are 'ruining' their headphones on purpose to cater to the masses.. Ala, flabby, farty bass.. & Why aren't the engineers doing what Mark did?

This is exactly what happens when you rely on your machines and measurements to tell you when you have successfully designed a product. Clearly, no one bothered to *listen* to the finished product.

Also if you think this type of resonance control mods could work well on the DX1000s too.

The DX1000 has a different problem than the Denons. The DX1000 has two inner chabers within the wooden ear cup. One or the other (or both) of them is causing that hollow, echoe-y, reverberant sound that is so distracting. I'm not sure how to corect that, but I'd probably start experimenting with some carefully stuffed Fiberloft in those chambers. I no longer own my pair, I sold them when I corrected the Denons.

Wouldn't Dynaxorb work equally or better to absorb the driver's back radiation wave instead of Dynamat plus the foam covering the wooden cup?

That looks interesting (not familiar with it), but I mainly chose the foam because it is porous and has holes to allow air flow. Those little foam pads still sit on the face of the driver and do cover a few holes each. I felt using something that would allow air through might give me the advantage of damping but without overly restricting air flow.

[ueyteuor]

markl, didn't some point or another just want to give up?? whenever i try doing mods like this.. i just sort of give up and not go any further... you are the man for going all the way, and i must say that is the most extreme mod/tweak i have seen someone do on a headphone! excellent job

[Wmcmanus]

Originally Posted by nickchen

No theoretician, however, sorry for indeed misplaced behavior. Wrong thread for such statements.

No problem and I hope my remarks didn't come across as being overly personal; as I've assured you via PM, that was not my intent. I just wanted to close that Volkswagon door before 17 clowns came pouring out of it.

[markl]

markl, didn't some point or another just want to give up??

Yes, that's why it took me so long. (I know there was a group of people who have been waiting a while for these results.)

But audiophile nervosa is a cruel mistress, and she drove me on. I chiefly used Soul Coughing's Irresistible Bliss to dial in the bass. It's an album I know by heart, with big slabs of deeeep, springy, popping bass (from an electrified upright bass). It gave the stock Denon fits trying to reproduce the bass lines, they wanted to leap off my head. Once I got them to the point where they could reproduce all that in perfectly taught and solid manner, I knew I was getting close. There's this one little bass note on one of the songs that my Sony R10 could never reproduce (it just disappeared because the Sonys just don't go that low). The key with the Denons was make sure I could still hear that note in full. When it started to fade, I knew I had gone too far.

Then it was on to the Chemical Brothers and Dionald Fagen's Morph the Cat for further testing. Problem is, those were some of my favorite albums, and now I'm totally sick of them.

[Wmcmanus]

Originally Posted by markl

Then it was on to the Chemical Brothers and Dionald Fagen's Morph the Cat for further testing. Problem is, those were some of my favorite albums, and now I'm totally sick of them.

Any bass love has gotta love that title cut on Morph the Cat! I'd never ruin that with A/B testing. Did that to Money for Nothing and will never forgive myself. In any case, your efforts are certainly worthy of applause. I've gone down that road of test, retest once too many times and really don't have the patience for it anymore.

[tev]

This has to be one of the great mod threads of all times. Even if we don't go all the way, Markl has raised our awareness of the Denon's characteristics and capabilites.

I'm so tempted to make the plunge with this phone and try the mod(s). Mark, Do you or any else know if a re-cable can be done after the mod without much difficulty?

[Gurra1980]

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice

Why aren't the engineers doing what Mark did? Maybe he should work on the successor.. He seems to be the only one that knows what they are doing. Most of that DIY is above me. But I'd have no problem paying someone to do it for me..

Because Denon has obviously come to the conclusion that the sound the Denons have is what most people would like. The markl mod is nothing more than a mod to make markl satisfied. Everyone could mod there headphones to there own liking if they where in to DIY. I personally don't find those flaws on my D2000 that markl did. I have also tried to mod them to see how they would sound but the treble gets to piercing, the D2000 has TME almost a tiny bit to much treble originally.

No offence to you markl, I really like nice souls like you who is willing to spread to people what you like and what you have found is good.

[markl]

Do you or any else know if a re-cable can be done after the mod without much difficulty?

It shouldn't be much of an issue, but I would recommend getting the re-cable first.

Because Denon has obviously come to the conclusion that the sound the Denons have is what most people would like.

Or, it was built to a price point, and they had to find ways to make it meet that price point, and that meant severe compromises on build quality/construction, leading to a super-flimsy frame and assembly, and ultimately farty, flatulent bass.

[Cool_Torpedo]

Originally Posted by markl

...

The DX1000 has a different problem than the Denons. The DX1000 has two inner chabers within the wooden ear cup. One or the other (or both) of them is causing that hollow, echoe-y, reverberant sound that is so distracting. I'm not sure how to corect that, but I'd probably start experimenting with some carefully stuffed Fiberloft in those chambers. I no longer own my pair, I sold them when I corrected the Denons.

Thanks. I had a very short audition on the D5000 and I couldn't really spot its flaws, but bass seemed a bit "overcooked". On the DX1000 it's too, not for its quality, I don't think it's flabby, but there's too much bass energy compared to highs above 1000KHz more or less. I've noticed, specially on orchestral works that there're some enclosure resonances that call your attention to the driver/cup reproducing those sounds. If I knew how to remove safely the earpad, I'd have a look inside to see how to experiment.

Originally Posted by markl

That looks interesting (not familiar with it), but I mainly chose the foam because it is porous and has holes to allow air flow. Those little foam pads still sit on the face of the driver and do cover a few holes each. I felt using something that would allow air through might give me the advantage of damping but without overly restricting air flow.

I'm not familiar either, I found the Dynaxorb while looking for a Dynamat source. They say it's mainly a sound absorbing product (they consider Dynamat more an isolator than an absorbent) to place behind the midrange and treble drivers. If it worked also for the bass output of a small heapdhone driver, it could be very good to line the inside of the earcups. Then the back holes of the driver frame would be completely free since it might be possible not to use the foam.

I was thinking of getting a pair of D5000, but it might be wiser to get two hehehe

Thanks a lot for your replies and for sharing with us your work.

Regards.

[Gurra1980]

Originally Posted by markl

Or, it was built to a price point, and they had to find ways to make it meet that price point, and that meant severe compromises on build quality/construction, leading to a super-flimsy frame and assembly, and ultimately farty, flatulent bass.

I don't think it would be to expensive for DENON to do those mods you have done, BTW there is more damping in the D2000 cups than in D5000 they did have the money for that. I guess DENON just as most other big companies have done massive reaserch, testing and measuring.