From HD650 to HD600

[kejar31]

Originally Posted by Patu

I have two questions for HD600 users.

1. Have you defoamed your HD600? I understand that this mod is more popular with HD650.

2. What aftermarket cable do you use with HD600? I've got this feeling that Cardas would be very popular for HD600. Is it the best option for HD600?

Yes, I defoamed my HD580's and liked the results. It is my understanding that the cardas cable is the most popular cable for the HD580/600's

[Patu]

Originally Posted by kejar31

This is what you mean when you talk about the white material as apposed to the black material? correct?

These pictures were taken from APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure

Well not quite. The white material I was talking about is just like the one on the first picture. But the black material doesn't look like the one on the picture below. My HD650 is all the way black material, like the white one on the first pic but all the white parts are black.

EDIT:

No wait, the pictures are correct. It's just that the white background is visible through the black material. So those are the two different versions.

[Golden Monkey]

What is the purpose of the "defoaming" mod, as illustrated on the APS link?

Edit: never mind, I finally found the "great defoaming debate" thread...think I'll leave mine "stock".

[number1sixerfan]

I have had the hd650 before with the ppx3 and it wasn't much special. It sounded fine, but I sold the hd650s because they were less open than the w5000 and less involving.

I now have the woo 6 and all of the above has changed. The woo and the senns definitely have synergy to say the least. I find myself using the senns as much as my favorite cans(w5000) or even more. The sound is much more open and exciting. My only gripe is that I wish the amp had a bit more power. I have to listen at the max most of the time when using the senns.

[catscratch]

I've always held the HD600 in more regard than the HD650, and the tonal balance was the main reason. The HD600 is simply much more neutral, it is to my ears one of the most neutral headphones around, with very good instrument tone. The HD650 always sounded thick, heavy, with sloppy bass, an overly warm midrange, and a recessed treble. Its attack was too soft and its decay was too long, but at the same time it didn't sound lush - just thick. The bass was boomy and overpowered everything.

That all changed when I hooked mine up to the Dared VP-20 push-pull monoblock amp. Yes it's a speaker amp and isn't designed to drive these things, but it did it regardless, and the sound that came out was like no HD650 I've ever heard before.

It had no sloppy bass, no excessive thickness or heaviness; it was fast, aggressive, with a deep, tight, generally amazing bass, a fluid, euphonic midrange, and a treble that while a bit recessed was very extended and very detailed. I simply couldn't believe my ears.

I also experimented with the HD600 in the same rig, and improved as well, but not to the same extent as the HD650. It was a very aggressive, impactful headphone with a very neutral tonal balance, correct tone, good detail, and superb dynamic range - but it didn't have the finesse, detail, imaging, and soundstage of the HD650. The latter is simply holographic in its imaging, and the soundstage is huge.

I've tamed the HD650's somewhat recessed treble and somewhat excessive bass in this rig with some silver cables, but I think that the sound signature has swung too much in the other direction, and perhaps copper is the way to go. It's a bit too clinical and cold now, so there's more tweaking left to do.

The HD650 driven this way has outperformed the SR-404, K340, TakeT H2, K1000, absolutely everything that I have lying around, and by a good margin.

So, I think that the HD600 is the way to go if you don't have a seriously good system. But, the HD650 in a good rig will really show its stuff and be one of the best headphones in the world, up there with the big boys - and I don't know of any other sub-$1k headphone that scales this well.

[Gradofan2]

Originally Posted by kejar31

This is what you mean when you talk about the white material as apposed to the black material? correct?

These pictures were taken from APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure

Yes... that's the material we're referring to... except its on the HD650s.

[Gradofan2]

Originally Posted by catscratch

...That all changed when I hooked mine up to the Dared VP-20 push-pull monoblock amp. Yes it's a speaker amp and isn't designed to drive these things, but it did it regardless, and the sound that came out was like no HD650 I've ever heard before.

It had no sloppy bass, no excessive thickness or heaviness; it was fast, aggressive, with a deep, tight, generally amazing bass, a fluid, euphonic midrange, and a treble that while a bit recessed was very extended and very detailed. I simply couldn't believe my ears.

The HD650 driven this way has outperformed the SR-404, K340, TakeT H2, K1000, absolutely everything that I have lying around, and by a good margin.

So... how did you connect the HD650s to that amp? Isn't it two monoblock power amps?

Are they connected via spade plugs to the spearker terminals?

How are you controlling the volume? Does your amp have a POT - which would be unusual - unless it's an integrated pre-amp / amp?

Did you connect to a separate pre-amp - possibly the matching Dared pre-amp?

Is the gain too high to allow refined adjustment of volume levels?

This set up runs about $1300 with both the Dared Monoblocks and the Dared pre-amp - if you buy it off eBay?

[Zorander]

I actually found my HD-650 (2005) to be less in bass volume than my HD-600 (2007) and sounds vastly the better of the two. Weird or just the way it should be, I don't know.

[catscratch]

Originally Posted by Gradofan2

So... how did you connect the HD650s to that amp? Isn't it two monoblock power amps?

Are they connected via spade plugs to the spearker terminals?

I used a stock Senn cable reterminated to 4-pin XLR, which was then connected straight to the speaker terminals via an AKG female 4-pin XLR to speaker leads adapter that came with my K1k. Later, I got custom-built Senn cables that terminate in spades and can be connected directly to the speaker taps.

Originally Posted by Gradofan2

How are you controlling the volume? Does your amp have a POT - which would be unusual - unless it's an integrated pre-amp / amp?

Did you connect to a separate pre-amp - possibly the matching Dared pre-amp?

The Dareds are intergated quasi-monoblocks. They have a volume pot and they share a power supply. They don't have any other trappings of your typical integraded amps - no input switching, phono stage, etc, but they do allow you to regulate the volume and they seem to be handling a 300 ohm load just fine (knock on wood).

Originally Posted by Gradofan2

Is the gain too high to allow refined adjustment of volume levels?

It's borderline. Fine adjustment takes a bit of fiddling around, but it's doable. I would certainly like less gain. At 9:00 on the dial the volume is already very, very high. I may consider inserting some attenuators between the amp and the source. Still, for the time being, it's nothing that I can't live with.

Originally Posted by Gradofan2

This set up runs about $1300 with both the Dared Monoblocks and the Dared pre-amp - if you buy it off eBay?

I don't have the Dared pre-amp, but given the general Dared sound signature I would guess that a double-dose of tubes would be a bit too much. The VP-20 does not sound excessively tubey and the 6L6 tube on which it's based is a very fast, punchy, lively sounding tube, but it's still on the warm side, and the preamp might be overkill. On the other hand, it will sure make adjusting volume much easier, so I may stick it in just for kicks and see where that goes. It's certainly not that expensive.

I'm not advocating anything along the lines of "Oh my God go get this system now it's nutzzZ!!" since this is still a bit of an experiment in the making and I don't know how this will work out in the long term, since the equipment is asked to operate well outside the parameters for which it was designed. There is certainly a bit of a crackle in the left channel noticeable on a few of my albums during a few passages, but I think that's more to do with the tubes in that monoblock not being quite up to par. It isn't present in the right channel and 99% of the time it isn't present at all. I think a tuberoll is in order and will answer that question. I haven't noticed any other problems - well, other than that the system is so revealing that my source simply doesn't cut it anymore.

[Penchum]

Originally Posted by Patu

Snip
K601 was nothing special to my ears. Very much like K701. The sound was somewhat thin for my taste. Mids were hiding somewhere and bass was too weak. They did sound very clear and detailed though. Not for me anyways.

But the HD600, me likes A LOT. If I should put it simply, they are HD650 with less bass (talking about bass amount, not deepness or punchiness) and more treble energy. To my ears the sound of HD600 was in better balance than HD650's. I tried to audition them critically with my test tracks, but I kept on finding myself listening through albums with them. I just fell into the music. After that I knew that because I can't go for Woo6 ATM, I must go for HD600 because it works very well on my current rig. And here we are, today I bought them for quite a good price and now I'm burning them in. Almost ten hours behind already. I know these need much much more. I'm going to keep my Enigma Audio cable with them.

I'm not quite sure why my HD650s sounded so different compared to a newer pair. I must do some comparison with newer pair later.

AD2000 would also interest me but I'm on a tight budget now so that must wait.

Well there you have it, from mighty HD650 to mighty HD600.

I checked my HD-650's and HD-600's and they are both the newer version. I have several thousands of hours on the HD-650's and around 900 hours on the HD-600's. I like both headphones for their distinctive sound and differences. When I got my MKIVse tube amp, and rolled in some high-end tubes, that perception changed immediately. The HD-650's took on a new face, tighter bass, yummy mids, clear and defined highs and a better sound stage! The HD-600's kept their same face using the MKIVse, as they had with my other less powerful tube amps.

Later, when I picked up my MKV Dual Mono SS headphone amp, the HD-600's really turned impressive! They sound much better than the HD-650's on the MKV. So, somewhere in this mix of possibilities, it seems that the HD-650's like a more powerful OTL (or better) designed tube amp and the HD-600's like a great SS amp. I can't be sure of "WHY", but the results are constant and hard to ignore.

Another interesting aspect, is that the only mod I have done, is to put a HD-650 cable on the HD-600. That is all. I still have the foam in there and stock cable on the HD-650. Thank goodness I love them both!