Alessandro MS1000 and MS Ultimate - DIY & modding [56K warning]

[nickchen]

No, I have no idea why the GS1000 pads don't work unless it's a GS1K itself or some Grado/Alessandro equipped with distancer pieces.

I did not try this mod with a Grado (we tend to utilize Alessandros here in the EU due to the prices), but I'm pretty sure it works there as well.

The woodying you saw on the pics is pure boutique hifi with no sound effect at all. All you need for the mod are a Grado/Alessandro beast, distancer pieces and a set of GS1000 pads.

[daveDerek]

these are very interesting findings and i certainly hope that this thread encourages more folks to play with 'em and report their findings. i'd certainly like to hear more about the mods to the ms-pros and hf-1s.

Originally Posted by malldian

Any ideas on where to get the liberators?

Originally Posted by exe163

Very impressive indeed, but I have neither tool nor skills to craft a distancer, please inform me if there are other solution for the states.

Originally Posted by Assorted

Darn, liberators are out of stock for now, and I'm not sure if there's a trade standard component that can act as one

Originally Posted by darwinyo

Any thoughts on using PVC to make wannabe-liberators? I live in the city and have little access to power tools required to cut wood :/.

Originally Posted by moomooemu

anyone know where to get some liberators in the us???

Originally Posted by TopPop

Wonderful work, I'm sure they do sound amazing. It'd be nice to be able to order Liberators again so that the rest of us could try something like this... I don't have the tools to make my own!

perhaps if enough folks write to dark audio @ dark-audio@go2.pl and let 'em know that they want liberators they could be convinced to bring 'em back into production. i just did.

[nickchen]

Main problem about darkaudio is that they lost their supply for that special PVC they used for their liberators - the german manufacturer latterly refuses selling that stuff in smaller numbers. So if darkaudio is going back into production, they have to organize the PVC at a reseller.

They've calculated everything, and they wrote us that a set of liberators would cost about (!) 100€ if they went back into production under such circumstances.

I'd say DIY is the actual solution. I've personally become much better and quicker in my skills. Who is still curious about this mod (and you really should) and doesn't manage or can't be bothered to build his own distancers is free to contact me for help.

[malldian]

There is definitely a market for someone to open up mall-fi here... something to keep in mind. If you ever consider it send me a PM i have some ideas we could do.

[daveDerek]

Originally Posted by malldian

Any ideas on where to get the liberators?

Originally Posted by nickchen

Main problem about darkaudio is that they lost their supply for that special PVC they used for their liberators - the german manufacturer latterly refuses selling that stuff in smaller numbers. So if darkaudio is going back into production, they have to organize the PVC at a reseller.
They've calculated everything, and they wrote us that a set of liberators would cost about (!) 100€ if they went back into production under such circumstances.
I'd say DIY is the actual solution. I've personally become much better and quicker in my skills. Who is still curious about this mod (and you really should) and doesn't manage or can't be bothered to build his own distancers is free to contact me for help.

Originally Posted by malldian

There is definitely a market for someone to open up mall-fi here... something to keep in mind. If you ever consider it send me a PM i have some ideas we could do.

wow, can't they find another supplier? that's an outrageous price! the mall-fi idea might be a good one. nickchen, your offer is appreciated but you already indicated that it's tougher for you to do things outside of the eu. perhaps some of the handier folks on this side of the pond might be interested in participating.

[darwinyo]

I'd definitely be interested in acquiring a pair of the extenders for my MS-1s, along with the GS1000 pads if possible.

I'm also in the US.

[V-Duh]

In the interest of further understanding the capabilities and limits of my SR225s I am also curious about DIY methods associated with the distancers.

I've been looking at the housings and I'm not completely clear on something: The driver appears to be in a cylindrical sub-housing that in turn is inset into the flanged piece that holds the pads. Is this true, and if so can the driver sub-housing be removed from the flanged piece?

Thanks,
V-Duh

[nickchen]

As I have already turned out to become the inofficial supplier of the distancers in Germany and the EU, I agree that a solution for the rest of you has to be found. Malldian suggested roughly something in the Mall-Fi path, where he would represent a kind of subsidiary for North America and would be supplied with greater amounts of distancers I'd build here.

The exchange rates between Euro and Dollar remain problematic though, as everythings gets boosted by on third actually.

Does anybody know how that Mall-Fi / Member of the Trade things get initiated here?

@V-Duh: I don't exactly understand your question, as you formulated it in a quite complicated and very technophile way. I'm not a native speaker, you know, and I don't have the time to "work and translate" myself through it - things are a bit hectical here in my day job actually. Could you please re-formulate it in dummy english?

[V-Duh]

Originally Posted by nickchen

...you formulated it in a quite complicated and very technophile way.

Sorry. I think I was a bit tired when I wrote it.

The full cup assembly seems to be three pieces - listed from outside in: a) the cap with the screen, b) the part that holds the earpad (like a shallow distancer) which is connected to the headband, and c) what looks like a small housing just for the driver.

If the driver is in a small housing of its own, can it be removed? If it can, a long distancer could be made to hold the earpad AND the driver. It may even be possible, but not likely, to make a single piece to hold the earpad and the driver, connect to the headband and form the chamber with the screen.

I could be confused and there may only be two main pieces: a) the cap with the screen, and b) the main housing that holds the driver and the earpad and is connected to the headband.

If this still doesn't make sense I will need to ask my questions with pictures later.

Thanks for the help.

[darwinyo]

Found this page elsewhere that has dimensions for the earcup mod on Grados if anyone wants to DIY it: HeadWize - Project: The Collected Grado Headphone Mods by "Skippy" et al.

[nickchen]

Hello V-Duh,

the whole thing only consists out of two parts, that is cap & screen you mentionend, and the housing of the driver (which also holds the earpad).

I personally wouldn't build a complete thing with distancers and housing out of one piece. That would be an awful lot of work with no significant benefits and dangers for the drivers. Building a small distancer and glueing it onto the housing is much easier and completely reversible.

[earthflyer]

NICE!!!

Originally Posted by nickchen

Part 2: Boutique

Here two little reference projects I did with the goal to get the optical impression of the MS1000 closer to its acoustical abilities.

MS 1000 Woody (with Liberator distancers)
My first woody. Did this for a buddy.
Material: Linden

MS1000 Woody und MS1000 "normal"

MS 1000 Woody (with DIY Distancers)
This is my own pair, after having become jealous of my buddies pair
Material: Linden / Black Walnut

[onocentaur]

^^^ did you really have to quote all those images?

anyway... has anyone compared the MS1000/ultimate to the GS1000?

[NoXter]

Originally Posted by onocentaur

anyway... has anyone compared the MS1000/ultimate to the GS1000?

No, but that is one of those things planned for the future. Maybe Nickchen and i get a chance in a few weeks.

Well, here I am, the first and currently only owner of MSultimate.
After a long hearing-session with Nickchen yesterday, the MSultimate is still that 'monster' we've created!

The soundstage is one of the biggest and realistic ones I've ever heard with dynamic or electrostatic headphones, and I had the chance to hear a lot of these top notch headphones.
It has deep-bass which really seems to pullsate within the BigBowls, still that typical Grado kickbass which makes a lot of fun.
The mids are one of that rare weaknesses of MS1000, but not of MSultimate!
Voices for example do sound really nice and have enough volume. Only naturalness is a point where other headphones like DT880, K701 or Stax are more convincing.
The highs are not harsh and not oversized, but it is still a team treble headphone!
Resolution and details are on 'normal' level we're familiar from K701 or something. Some headphones are better in that point.

All told MSultimate is a really great headphone which is in sum of all its
attributes a really outstanding headphone.

Well, I would like to write a lot more and more detailed, but my english is limited.
So that's all for the moment.

edit.

Something about MS1000. In general it's a lower res version of MSultimate, but it has slightly more bass and thinner mids (as well compared to MS1, but nothing dramatic).
After all you'll get a real value-for-money headphone for a small(er) budget!!
So, all MS1 owner's outthere, use the potential of this headphone! :-)

[nickchen]

One thing we found out yesterday is the fact that tight sitting of the distancers is absolutely eminent. Noxters MS Ultimate sounded a bit thin compared to my MS1000, as he had fixed the distancers with only a few drops of glue, leaving gaps between the fix points. After a "proper" reglueing, the bass became as good as my MS1000 bass. All in all, the MS1000 got slaughtered by its big brother, which added monstrous resolution and real natural mids to the already nice package.

We also "rebuilt" a stock MS1 to compare it more properly to the MS1000 (last time we had left the liberators on Noxters MS1), and the differences were quite obvious. The MS1 had a bit better mids, but failed totally in every other respect - a kind of cheap PX100 charme we both did not like too much any more.

Finally, we took a closer look at the MS2000. Same impression as 1st time superficial try - It also profits from the mod, but by far not as much as MS1 or MS Pro. The bass and soundscape magic only happens to 75%, and the highs pierce a bit too much.