Trying to get into high-end speakers -- weary of shams/non-hifi companies - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

JerryG20 · #1 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:40 AM

Hey guys, I'm trying to get into high-end speakers but I'm weary of companies that really aren't high-fidelity sound quality and charge a lot for their speakers when you can get a lot more for less. People always briefly mention these companies, but I have not really got specifics. BOSE is obvious, but what else? Can anyone help me find out which companies to avoid and which ones to seriously consider (looking for speakers in the $500-$1000 range, willingly to buy used). For example, Bowers & Wilkins is supposed to be a legitimate, right? BUT, apparently not Bang & Olufsen (I've read they are more fashion and design for expensive costs, and then finally sound at the end)? What about general trends in sound quality of speakers? For example, Paradigm speakers having a brighter or leaner sound? Lastly, what's a good forum where I can find out more about speakers (A LEGITIMATE hifi stereo forum; I've seen some that are more like commercial hifi stereo forums; I'm looking for a place full of knowledgeable people that have heard many speakers from many companies (not just simple stuff like Klipsch, etc, but more exotic and not mainstream Best Buy companies if you know what I mean).

Thanks!

chesebert · #2 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:52 AM

find a local stereo shop and listen for yourself.

spyderx · #3 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:56 AM

browse audiogon.com and avsforum.com

Stay away from Bose and B&O.Not that they don't make good products for their target markets, but they are usually not considered "hi-fi". They are expensive though.

Find a local hi-fi shop and checkout what they have. I don't know what your definition of high-end is, but in hi-fi, that usually means speakers that are 10k+ a pair, some might say more. Speakers like Wilson, Focal, B&W, etc have speakers that go there. There is lots of great stuff out there that is less, but not really "high end"

Keep in mind, too, that the "big box" stores sometimes carry lines that do have other lines that are much more hi-fi. Infinity, Polk, and Klipsch come to mind.

A few brands to checkout: Paradigm (I have some), B&W (I have some), Snell, Focal, NHT, Dali, Linn, Revel, Tannoy, Dynaudio, Wilson (would love them if the wife would let me drop 15k on a USED set of Watt Puppys), Usher (checking some out this week), Sonus Faber, Quad, PSB.... the list goes on!

JerryG20 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert

find a local stereo shop and listen for yourself.

The only problem is that everything sounds good unless you have heard better right? This is the reason why people like BOSE so much. I don't know anything about speaker companies, so I the ones I audition may not be good but because I haven't heard hifi speakers before I won't know how good they are relative to my full options. You could just say ignorance is bliss and call it a day, but I'd like the security of knowing that I've listened to my options. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

BigJohn · #5 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:59 AM

B&O has some great speakers, but not in your price range...
B&W is a matter of taste, the cheaper ones (in your price range) didn't impress me too much.
Klipsch, again is a matter of taste.

For the obvious reasons I would say; "Dynaudio"
I like Dynaudio a lot, and they start in your price range easy.
Allso, I never heard bad things about Dynaudio, so maybe it's not just my taste.
I do suspect that some models will need a "healthy" amplifier though...

You could try Monitor Audio, Kef, Quad (!)

There are a whole lot of good affordable speakers to be had I suppose (no, this is not an invitation to a discussion, please...)

chesebert · #6 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryG20

The only problem is that everything sounds good unless you have heard better right? This is the reason why people like BOSE so much. I don't know anything about speaker companies, so I the ones I audition may not be good but because I haven't heard hifi speakers before I won't know how good they are relative to my full options. You could just say ignorance is bliss and call it a day, but I'd like the security of knowing that I've listened to my options. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

your local stereo shop will usually carry more than 1 pair of spkr from 1 brand; and they probably won't try to sell you Bose; that's the job of BB.

Arainach · #7 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 05:48 AM

Pick a budget, find some models in your price range, and find some stores in your region to go listen to. I ended up driving pretty much side-to-side across Michigan in 2 days (to Ann Arbor and back, then to Grand Rapids and back) to visit a couple of stores before finally realizing the B&W 685 were exactly what I wanted. Naming brands would be easier if you gave a budget, but B&W, Paradigm, Dynaudio, and Lynn are all excellent.

JerryG20 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arainach

Pick a budget, find some models in your price range, and find some stores in your region to go listen to. I ended up driving pretty much side-to-side across Michigan in 2 days (to Ann Arbor and back, then to Grand Rapids and back) to visit a couple of stores before finally realizing the B&W 685 were exactly what I wanted. Naming brands would be easier if you gave a budget, but B&W, Paradigm, Dynaudio, and Lynn are all excellent.

I'm looking at the $500-$1000 range but preferrably at the South end of that range ($500-$750). As far as sound preference is, I like headphones like the Sony MDR-CD3000 and DT990 (a little bass-heavy), but I'd like the speakers to also have weight to the sound (I really like detail, air, soundstage; going to speakers because headphones do not quit put the right amount of weight behind the musical notes, along with more realistic soundstages).

mbriant · #9 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 06:24 AM

Quote:

(looking for speakers in the $500-$1000 range, willingly to buy used)

Quote:

The only problem is that everything sounds good unless you have heard better right? This is the reason why people like BOSE so much. I don't know anything about speaker companies, so I the ones I audition may not be good but because I haven't heard hifi speakers before I won't know how good they are relative to my full options. You could just say ignorance is bliss and call it a day, but I'd like the security of knowing that I've listened to my options.

It would help you a great deal if you could find a way to listen to several "higher end" setups....because then you'll know what's possible to attain. You probably already know what "very bad" sounds like, so once you've established what's very good, you'll be able to better judge sound quality at any price range. Remember that while price is a reasonably good guide to judge quality, it's not necessarily 100% accurate....especially with loudspeakers.

IMO, if it's "high-end" you're looking for, then used, preferably from a local audiophile who is particular about their equipment, is the way to go. Your budget will go further and put you into better models. However, if the peace of mind of a warranty is important to you, you might prefer to buy a lesser quality speaker, brand new. Then again, loudspeakers have a long lifespan unless they've been abused. There's usually some very good deals to be had with used equipment. Some retailers will sell used equipment with warranties.

Before you spend your entire budget on speakers however, remember that the higher quality your loudspeakers, the more important amplification becomes. A $5,000 or a $500 loudspeaker can sound pretty awful and nowhere near it's best, when underpowered . In other words, your choice of amplification should influence your choice of speakers, and vice versa.

spyderx · #10 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 06:30 AM

I totally missed the 500-1000 you listed. I'm going to second what everyone else has said here:

--Find some hi-fi shops near you
--Bring your own CDs
--Listen listen listen listen listen
--I'd suggest you listen to stuff in your price-range and stuff out of it so you can hear the differences

In that price-range I would suggest monitors/bookshelf speakers. There are LOTS of good choices, I listed a bunch, so have some others.

If it sounds good to you, then it's good. That's the way it is with speakers.

Melchior · #11 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 09:55 AM

I was about to recommend some Magnepan MMG's to start off with, as they have a nice 2 month full money back trial period and are a great deal at 500 dollars new. You did mention you wanted the speakers to have "weight" to them, and while I think that they have great overall sound quality you will not get the same "impact" you do from cone drivers.

Uncle Erik · #12 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 10:15 AM

Have you thought about building your own? diyAudio.com - audio projects by fanatics, for fanatics is a great place to start. So is Madisound Speaker Components, Inc..

There are kits and custom cabinet builders, as well, so you don't need many tools or experience.

Even if you don't want to build, check out these resources. You can learn a lot from the guys who actually build them.

digitalmind · #13 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik

Have you thought about building your own? diyAudio.com - audio projects by fanatics, for fanatics is a great place to start. So is Madisound Speaker Components, Inc..

There are kits and custom cabinet builders, as well, so you don't need many tools or experience.

Even if you don't want to build, check out these resources. You can learn a lot from the guys who actually build them.

I was going to say exactly the same -- your price range will allow you to build very nice speakers, if you have the room and tools. And like Erik said, even if you aren't interested in building the speakers yourself, read a bit on diyaudio.com... there's a lot of knowledge floating around on that board about why good speakers sound good, and even more on why bad speakers sound bad.

If you don't want to build, then definitely go secondhand. There are many older speakers in your price range that'll sound much better than new speakers. It's hard to recommend a specific manufacturer or even model because there's just so much choice. Only real way to find out what you want is to listen to a lot, but at least listen to a speaker or every type. Try single drivers, 2 ways, bookshelves, floorstanders, electrostats, and possibly open baffles as well. While they all strive to sound the same (ie, good), they all sound very different.

BigJohn · #14 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:19 PM

I have allmost no experiance with some of the brands that are not readily available here in Holland, so I can't say anything about that.
From what's available here in Holland, I would say; try B&W
If you like the Beyer bass, maybe some models from B&W will do it for you.
I'm not a bass head myself, so they're not for me...
(I suspect some German and American brands will even give you more bass, the Germans combined with high detail as well)

warpdriver · #15 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 04:19 PM

There's an interesting thread on avsforum with one guy's journey to find his ideal speaker ($2000 or so price range). It's an interesting read even though it may not be applicable to you

Speakerquest (so far...) - AVS Forum

I'll throw some brand names of speakers I consider worth auditioning. Exactly which brand you should buy, you have to hear and decide for yourself as they all offer something different depending on your tastes. Just like headphones it's still very subjective to find a speaker

B&W, Paradigm, PSB, Dynaudio, Monitor Audio, Revel, Totem, Energy (Reference Connoisseur), Epos Acoustics, Vandersteen

Go to their respective websites and search for the nearest local dealers to audition them at.