Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread

[piotr z]

You're doing incredible job - thanks

[Jon L]

Sonicap Platinum Teflon Capacitor



In order to prepare for the Sonicap Platinum, I actually reinstalled the VCap Teflon in place of Mundorf Zn in order to get used to the VCap again for awhile before popping in the Sonicap, which was running on the Cap break-in apparatus at the same time.

In short, the Sonic Craft website's description of its sound is pretty accurate:
"It is very fast, but full and rich. The presentation is ultra smooth without loss of detail, focus, or dynamics."

In direct comparison to VCap Teflons, SP (Sonicap Platinum) *was* a bit richer and a smidge creamier. We're talking about somewhat subtle differences, but SP was definitely a bit denser, darker, therefore subjectively a wee bit smoother through the midranges. Some will almost recognize a bit of this as found in a good paper-in-oil cap, minus the treble rolloff or bass slowness, of course.

The VCap still does come across as a teeny bit more transparent and lit-up, and what's somewhat special about the VCap is the fact it sounds *consistently* transparent/lit-up throughout its ranges, especially in the critical upper-midrange to low-treble transition; there's no peaks or bumps here even though the whole range is better lit-up.

With SP, even though everything else seems a bit smoother and richer, there seems to my ears a very narrow band, somewhere at the highest end of female vocal sibilance to top-hats, that appears to have the tiniest bit more "sparkle" than the rest of the range. I only mention it b/c it is a difference.

Overall, SP is a nice alternative to the VCap teflons and costs less. Just like anything in audio, some systems will synergize better with one or the other. For those who have listened and think VCap is a bit too literal or "sterile" (I don't personally) in their systems, Sonicap Platinum is a viable choice.

[slwiser]

I have not noticed but if this is not sticky it should be.

[Jon L]

Originally Posted by slwiser

I have not noticed but if this is not sticky it should be.

Thanks for the words.

Anyhow, it might be worth mentioning at this point that despite breaking in the caps for days, cumulatively for weeks sometimes, there is *STILL* roughness and brightness for hours after the solder has dried.

Basically 100% of the caps have displayed this behavior, and I suspect this is at least partly due to the new solder joints themselves settling down and the caps readjusting to the new electrical and mechanical environment. Thankfully, this roughness/brightness has always gone away within hours.

I just installed well-burned-in Relcap RTX caps, and it was a painful experience for several hours, but I'm glad I didn't follow my impulse to take them out

Just something to note for all you impatient cap rollers.

[PhaedrusX]

would there be any reasons not to use sockets on the board for easier rolling of caps?

[Jon L]

Originally Posted by PhaedrusX

would there be any reasons not to use sockets on the board for easier rolling of caps?

Well, there is really no special "sockets" for cap rolling out there, especially ones that would fit inside usual equipment.

If one had a lot of space and wanted a temporary socket, he can try to install some terminal strips like Tempoelectric did like this:



But any additional sockets/distance/metal contacts/solder *can* change the sound, so I prefer to just solder in the caps where they are supposed to be, old school.

[Jon L]

Relcap RTX



This tin foil/polystyrene cap has been around a long time, and many designers and modders swear by their use as bypass caps. Some more recent cap comparisons also confirm they are very good coupling caps by themselves.

The RTX had some big shoes to fill, replacing Sonicap Platinums, and I must say they did pretty well against the heavy hitters.

*Warning* Even after a long break-in, these caps sounded horrid for some hours after being soldered in, sounding grainy on top and anemic in the bass. Do not evaluate them without a long workout after solder dries.

After dust settled, these turned out to be very balanced top-to-bottom with no gross errors or peaks. Extension of frequency extremes was impressive, and the level of resolution was high without highlighting upper-midrange or upper-bass.

Compared to Sonicap Platinums, RTX didn't sound as dense and rich in the midrange, but it still managed to sound subjectively neutral, akin to some of those high-class red wines that's on the dry side as opposed to fruity and colorful. At a bit over half the price of Sonicap Platinums, these are a nice bargain in the cap world, but I wouldn't use too many in equipment that tends toward dryness in the midrange.

What really put the RTX in perspective was when I switched in Mundorf silver/gold again. Suddenly, I had beautifully colorful (but not colored) midrange that "popped" with effortless midrange dynamics. Musical textures just pulled your ears in, and that often-yearned-for "magic" was in the air. Mundorf silver/gold is almost three times the price of RTX, unfortunately, so save your pennies.

[PhaedrusX]

Originally Posted by Jon L

Well, there is really no special "sockets" for cap rolling out there, especially ones that would fit inside usual equipment.

If one had a lot of space and wanted a temporary socket, he can try to install some terminal strips like Tempoelectric did like this...

But any additional sockets/distance/metal contacts/solder *can* change the sound, so I prefer to just solder in the caps where they are supposed to be, old school.

thanks for the informative reply.
if there is clean contact with the circuit, i'm not sure how a socket/ strip in between a component and the PCB might change the sound any more than, say, a few extra cms of hook-up wire would. but having said that, i can appreciate and understand the "better safe then sorry" approach.
look forward to more impressions.

[Jon L]

Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil





I finally did some proper comparisons between these 2 capacitors, and while they do share the musical Mundorf house sound, their differences are significant enough that one should not automatically think a system synergistic with one will be synergistic with the other.

There are some who have concluded silver/gold is "not as good" as silver/oil, but I would not agree with that conclusion. However, they have sufficiently differing presentations and gestalt that yes, one "may" definitely prefer silver/oil in a given setup/preferences.

One word I would use to describe the main difference is "liquidity." While both are remarkably smooth, silver/oil has more liquidity, not enough to obscure detail but just enough to "massage" recordings that are not perfect. As a result, I am able to enjoy more percentage of my recordings through silver/oil, which liquifies a few percent of the upper-midrange/low-treble spittiness and hardness inherent in many recordings. Because silver/oil makes this range less noticeable, the high treble/air becomes relatively more noticeable, but upon closer analysis, the silver/gold has just as much upper end extension and air.

So once again, I still think silver/oil is the cap that most likely will have me keep listening to my (non-perfect) music collection instead of tweaking, but if your system is already leaning towards liquidity, silver/gold may be a better choice.

[Luminette]

very nice comparison with the silver vs gold/silver

it is appreciated

[Jon L]

Originally Posted by Luminette

very nice comparison with the silver vs gold/silver

it is appreciated

Thanks. Due to the generosity of an Audio Circle member, I now have Russian FT3 and K72 teflon caps on the burner.

Notice how HUGE they are

[fordgtlover]

^

Should be interesting.

[Phraxos]

Hey does anyone happen to know what's in the ALO portable Vcap? This one:

http://aloaudio.com/store/catalog/images/vcap-new.jpg

I'm not sure if they're OIMP or Teflon, it's been indicated to me both ways. Also, anyone know how much one of these go for (nowadays and when they were sold)?

Thanks

[Ferrari]

Originally Posted by Jon L

Thanks. Due to the generosity of an Audio Circle member, I now have Russian FT3 and K72 teflon caps on the burner.
Notice how HUGE they are

Yes, these Russian teflon are huge but the constructions are really excellent .
Looking forward to read your impressions about these Russian teflon caps.

[AudioCats]

great thread, and it is getting more and more interesting!
Can't wait to read the comparison results on the russian teflon.