Head-Fi Is Sponsored By:
Register FAQ Blogs Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Today's Posts Search
 

2008 International
Head-Fi Meet
(Can Jam '08)
Impressions,
Reviews, Photos


Can Jam '08 graphic
courtesy of Edwood

Click on the links below
for Can Jam '08 photos,
impressions and reviews:


NightWoundsTime
lan
agile_one
wavoman
crappyjones123
Luke G
bperboy
jimaxp

 


Can Jam '08 Logo
T-Shirts For Sale


Featured

Head-Fi's Sponsors
(Premier Sponsors bolded)

Head-Fi Blogs
and Facebook

Check out Head-Fi's new
Blogs section.

Featured Head-Fi Blogs:

Jude's "Take My Word"

 From Japan - by Sasaki

 LFF's Blog

(
Start your own Blog!)

Attention
Facebook Users



Join the official
Head-Fi.org
Facebook Group


Head-Fi's Sponsors
(Premier Sponsors bolded)

Featured


Go Back   Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio > Equipment Forums > Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum)

Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) Discussion of cables, power (the electric kind), tweaks, & accessories.
I, Objectivist:  The Objectivist Audio Forum (opening soon) If you feel the uncontrollable urge to use the word "placebo," in here is where you'll post (and only here). Discuss DBT all you want in here.

Meier Audio CORDA HEADSIX & The Ten Most Recent Sponsored Threads

Celebrating 6 years of Head-Fi, Meier Audio introduces the Limited Edition HEADSIX (portable headphone amp) Head-Fi Support Sales Action




 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2008, 05:44 AM   #51 (permalink)
Headphoneus Supremus
 
RedLeader's Avatar

Profile
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,057

IM Contacts
Send a message via AIM to RedLeader Send a message via MSN to RedLeader Send a message via Yahoo to RedLeader
Default

I love cable discussions!
__________________
End Boss Comic! A webcomic by yours truly

PSP Slim 3.80FW - EP630/JetBlue Headbanded KSC75
EMU0404 - Pioneer SX720 - HD25-1
Click here if my PM box is full.
Headfi Feedback eBay Feedback
RedLeader is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 05:45 AM   #52 (permalink)
Headphoneus Supremus
 
Uncle Erik's Avatar

Profile
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Beach, California
Posts: 7,207
Default

Res ipsa loquitur.

Anyone interested in buying a bridge? How about some land in Florida?

And thanks for the kitty pictures - very cute.
__________________
UNCLE ERIK
Vinyl, Tubes & Grado
Orbe SE -> SME IV -> Fi Yph -> Zana Deux -> RS-1, HP-2, K-1000, HD-650, HD-600, K-501, DT48

Last edited by Uncle Erik : 02-05-2008 at 05:50 AM.
Uncle Erik is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 05:46 AM   #53 (permalink)
100+ Head-Fi'er

Profile
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mt. Bethel, PA
Posts: 201

IM Contacts
Send a message via AIM to crazyeyes Send a message via MSN to crazyeyes
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 View Post
No, because speakers actually make a very audible and very measurable difference.
Here we go again with the "measurable" difference. I don't care if the difference isn't measurable all i care about is an audible difference which i and many others have heard with interconnects, power cables, and speaker cables. I am one of the most skeptic people when it comes to cables and i wouldn't have been saying this years ago. But i have tried a few cables and they DO make an audible difference.
__________________
Current:
Home: 20" iMac G5, Antique Sound Lab MG-Head OTL, Grado SR325i
Portable: 30GB iPod Video, UE Super.Fi 5 Pro

Speaker Rig:
Sources: Luxman PD121 Turntable w/ SME type III tonearm w/ Dynavector XX-1 cartridge, 20" iMac G5, Sony DVP-S7000
Phono Preamp: Plinius Jarrah
Preamp: Aronov LS9000
Amp: Dynaco ST70 restored
Speakers: Polk Audio SDA 2b
Cables: Zu Audio Julian speaker cable, Tek Line Audio TL-2010 interconnect, Tek Line Audio TL-500-S interconnect, Virtual Dynamics Power 3 power cable, Audioquest Mini-3 1/8"-RCA

Previous:
Grado SR225i w/headphile wood mod, Shure E3c, E4c, E5c
crazyeyes is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 05:48 AM   #54 (permalink)
Headphoneus Supremus
 
colonelkernel8's Avatar

Profile
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 2,104

IM Contacts
Send a message via AIM to colonelkernel8 Send a message via MSN to colonelkernel8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyeyes View Post
Here we go again with the "measurable" difference. I don't care if the difference isn't measurable all i care about is an audible difference which i and many others have heard with interconnects, power cables, and speaker cables. I am one of the most skeptic people when it comes to cables and i wouldn't have been saying this years ago. But i have tried a few cables and they DO make an audible difference.
Would you be interested in buying some of my cables then? I have some Signal Cables up for sale in the FS forums. Make me an offer. At least they are made with quality.
__________________
Head-Fi Feedback | eBay Feedback
colonelkernel8 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 05:52 AM   #55 (permalink)
100+ Head-Fi'er

Profile
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mt. Bethel, PA
Posts: 201

IM Contacts
Send a message via AIM to crazyeyes Send a message via MSN to crazyeyes
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 View Post
Would you be interested in buying some of my cables then? I have some Signal Cables up for sale in the FS forums. Make me an offer. At least they are made with quality.
If i were looking to buy cables maybe, but right now i am happy with the cables i have even though they might not be built the best they sound just fine to me. Thanks though.
__________________
Current:
Home: 20" iMac G5, Antique Sound Lab MG-Head OTL, Grado SR325i
Portable: 30GB iPod Video, UE Super.Fi 5 Pro

Speaker Rig:
Sources: Luxman PD121 Turntable w/ SME type III tonearm w/ Dynavector XX-1 cartridge, 20" iMac G5, Sony DVP-S7000
Phono Preamp: Plinius Jarrah
Preamp: Aronov LS9000
Amp: Dynaco ST70 restored
Speakers: Polk Audio SDA 2b
Cables: Zu Audio Julian speaker cable, Tek Line Audio TL-2010 interconnect, Tek Line Audio TL-500-S interconnect, Virtual Dynamics Power 3 power cable, Audioquest Mini-3 1/8"-RCA

Previous:
Grado SR225i w/headphile wood mod, Shure E3c, E4c, E5c
crazyeyes is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 06:29 AM   #56 (permalink)
100+ Head-Fi'er

Profile
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 295
Default

heres a really expensive transparent cable no doubt... whats inside the box is magic:
gotchaforce is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 06:33 AM   #57 (permalink)
500+ Head-Fi'er
 
dgbiker1's Avatar

Profile
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bellevue/ Pullman, WA
Posts: 607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 View Post
No, because speakers actually make a very audible and very measurable difference.
Agreed. My background (Biomedical Engineering) isn't in this field, but seems to parallel the concepts that should be at play. Medical signals deal with more noise (1:100 SNR isn't abnormal), and need to be processed much more precisely as poor frequency response, signal processing, and noise attenuation can mean death, not poor SQ (Loved our society motto: When we mess up, you die).

If you considered the passive properties (R,L,and C) of a "high-end" and a decent power cord, then pass the signal through transformers, rectifier bridges, and capacitors to obtain your DC supply voltage, the differences between the two cords are less than negligible. The cord does act as a line filter, but hardly has any effect relative to the rest of the electronics that will affect your signal. An educated guess on the order of magnitude of (generous) improvement would be about 1x10^-5 V at the power supply output. That's before signal processing, amplifier common mode rejection ratios, output stage filters, etc- not to mention the fact that increasing the power supply voltage to an op-amp has absolutely no effect (gain is gain is gain) on the output unless you're saturating the op-amp.

The quantum mechanics of electrons are unimportant here, the RLC differences in the power cords, though they do exist, are far less than normal biological variability (including placebo and all other physiological variability, normally assumed @ 20% variability) and very far below the (well studied) difference threshold of the ear. If you can hear the difference between two power cords, it's because one is very poorly shielded/conductive.

So IME if you hear a difference, your $150 bought you a placebo effect. That doesn't mean you don't hear a difference, it just means the improvement isn't taking place in the electrical domain but in the physiological domain. And I'm only talking about about power cables, the effects of interconnects and other signal cables are orders of magnitude more significant than power cables. They actually have an effect on frequency response (power cables do not), and the noise in a signal cable is amplified (and filtered, but no filter is perfect) for interconnects, or unfiltered if a headphone/speaker cable.
__________________

Headphones: AKG K701 --- Grado SR225 --- B&O A8 --- Atrio M8
Amps: Little Dot MKIII --- AMB Mini^3 --- CMoy/TLE
Sources: Macbook>Extigy --- 3G iPod Nano>LOD --- 4G iPod Rockboxed>LOD
Other: Meier Crossfeed

Last edited by dgbiker1 : 02-05-2008 at 06:42 AM.
dgbiker1 is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 06:38 AM   #58 (permalink)
Headphoneus Supremus
 
chesebert's Avatar

Profile
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbiker1 View Post
Agreed. My background (Biomedical Engineering) isn't in this field, but seems to parallel the concepts that should be at play. Medical signals deal with more noise (1:100 SNR isn't abnormal), and need to be processed much more precisely as poor frequency response, signal processing, and noise attenuation can mean death, not poor SQ (Loved our society motto: When we mess up, you die).

If you considered the passive properties (R,L,and C) of a "high-end" and a decent power cord, then pass the signal through transformers, rectifier bridges, and capacitors to obtain your DC supply voltage, the differences between the two cords are less than negligible. The cord does act as a line filter, but hardly has any effect relative to the rest of the electronics that will affect your signal. An educated guess on the order of magnitude of (generous) improvement would be about 1x10^-5 V at the power supply output. That's before signal processing, amplifier common mode rejection ratios, output stage filters, etc.

The quantum mechanics of electrons are unimportant here, the RLC differences in the power cords, though they do exist, are far less than normal biological variability (including placebo and all other physiological variability, normally assumed @ 20% variability) and very far below the (well studied) difference threshold of the ear. If you can hear the difference between two power cords, it's because one is very poorly shielded/conductive.

So IME if you hear a difference, your $150 bought you a placebo effect. That doesn't mean you don't hear a difference, it just means the improvement isn't taking place in the electrical domain but in the physiological domain.
My background (Electrical Engineering) is in this field; RLC @ DC does not define cable performance. My background does not give me the tools to understand why power cables work; need physics background.
__________________
TEAM HF-1 (#25)
Heatware
Headfi Feedback


Source: SD Transporter; Presonus CS; PS1; SD SB3
Headphone: HD650 v2; ATH-ANC7; HF-1
Portable: Edirol R09; Ipod 5G; Nokia N95
Speaker1 : Ayre AX-7e > Harbeth Monitor 30
Speaker2 : Creek 5350SE > Duntech PCL-15

Last edited by chesebert : 02-05-2008 at 06:41 AM.
chesebert is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 06:40 AM   #59 (permalink)
Headphoneus Supremus
 
bigshot's Avatar

Profile
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hollywood, USA
Posts: 5,732
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
But they also have some of the best audio cables and cords on the market and if you actually had one you would know that.
Did you miss seeing the photos at the beginning of this thread?

See ya
Steve
bigshot is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 06:42 AM   #60 (permalink)
Headphoneus Supremus
 
bigshot's Avatar

Profile
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hollywood, USA
Posts: 5,732
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyeyes View Post
Just cause a Ferrari is $200,000 doesn't mean a $65,000 corvette Z06 can't keep up with it
I don't think that standard house wiring in a garden hose qualifies as much more than a Yugo.

See ya
Steve
bigshot is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Facebook it!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0 Head-Fi.org
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:29 AM.

 

<