My cat tore up my Virtual Dynamics Power 3...

[spacemanspliff]

Originally Posted by 883dave

Could all the lawyers, who are having discourse about legal issues pertaining to this matter, please clearly state they are actually, in fact members of the bar.
Thanks

My little brother is a member. Can I pretend to be him? lol

He is so damn clueless about audio it is not funny. Unreal that he can pass the bar and be brilliant but has no understanding of even the basics of audio.

[scompton]

Originally Posted by chesebert

I agree with everything you have just said. But does participation in a referral program as a consumer on a sporadic and isolated basis qualifies one to be categorized as MoT? - that's the question I have attempted to answer in the prior post.

In general, I agree with you. But, the problem is non disclosure. If a person is receiving commissions, and discounts are commissions, there is a chance that they will start to shill. If it's disclosed, others know that they may take the opinions with a grain of salt.

[tomjtx]

Originally Posted by 883dave

Could all the lawyers, who are having discourse about legal issues pertaining to this matter, please clearly state they are actually, in fact members of the bar.
Thanks

Members of the bar would be MOB for short.

I, for one, would certainly want to know if we have any MOB members on here :-)

[adanac061]

Originally Posted by tomjtx

Members of the bar would be MOB for short.

I, for one, would certainly want to know if we have any MOB members on here :-)

What Head-Fi tag would you get if you were in the Association of Scottish Solicitors.

[Uncle Erik]

Originally Posted by adanac061

What Head-Fi tag would you get if you were in the Association of Scottish Solicitors.

You get a little shark under your tag and you have to present a one hour CLE on Headphone Law at a meet.

For full disclosure, I'm an active member in good standing.

[Grizzlepaw]

Originally Posted by bigshot

I'm sorry pal, but your credibility is hovering right around zero right now. Why should I believe you kept your fingers out of this test when you've been paying commissions to forum members to steer people to your products? How many posters here do you have working for you?

See ya
Steve

Credit for refferrals =/= commissions

let me spell out the difference for you.

1. If he was getting money then he could use the money on whatever he wanted, and would therefore be more inclined to push a poor product.

2. What he is receiving is credit toward future purchases, which means he does genuinely like the product, otherwise why would he be working to get more of it

Tons of companies have referral progams where a discount is given to referred customers, and to the person who reffered them. Your suggestion that we are paying people here to be on one side of this debate is a straw-man argument. It's very clear exactly what is going on here, but it's also clear that you seem to have some interest in portraying it as something that it isn't.

It is a referral program. It's a fairly usual way to do business.

Mechanical dampening in the power three, and all our cables, makes a clear difference.

Do you think we paid off this guy?
VV
I won a Virtual Dynamics Power 3 Cable - TalkBass Forums

If you've got a beef with manufacturers of high-end cable, then fine, I get it. You've got a bone to pick and a dog in every fight. IF you want to try this product you can for the cost of shipping, I will send you one and then you can rail on me until the cows come home about what horrible hideous people we are at Virtual Dynamics, and how we make babies cry in everything we do.

Your impression of our company is based in your bias, and not in reality.

-Brad

[kpeezy]

ahh... must delete.

[883dave]

Originally Posted by scompton

In general, I agree with you. But, the problem is non disclosure. If a person is receiving commissions, and discounts are commissions, there is a chance that they will start to shill. If it's disclosed, others know that they may take the opinions with a grain of salt.

Last time I purchased an amp from RSA, I mentioned I would be looking at purchasing one for my son in law in the near future.
Ray advised that if I purchased both together he would knock of some money and pay for postage
Also Ken at ALO has regularly given me a discount on purchases and discounted shipping.

I also got a discount on my last several audio purchases

Do I now have to say that I am a member of the trade representing

1. RSA
2. Wilson Audio
3. Black Diamond Racing
4. Graham Engineering
5. Benz Micro
6. Sim Audio
7. ALO
etc.etc.etc

I also just purchased several new albums, at which time I received a "Discount", 10% off plus no tax

Am I now a member of the trade for

1. Mobile fidelity
2. Classic Records
3. Vinyl Lovers
4. RTI
5. S&P Records

If this is the case I would suspect that everyone on this forum is a shill....

Lets keep it real

[bigshot]

Participation in a referral program as a consumer on a sporadic basis hardly qualifies one to be MoT.

How does one determine when they are "sporadic"? Do they officially quit selling, or are they just without a sales prospect? If someone on HeadFi decided to buy cables based on his recommendation, do you really think he would refuse the commission because he was "off duty"?

When you enter into an agreement to sell for a company, you should let folks know that.

See ya
Steve

[adanac061]

Originally Posted by 883dave

Last time I purchased an amp from RSA, I mentioned I would be looking at purchasing one for my son in law in the near future.
Ray advised that if I purchased both together he would knock of some money and pay for postage
Also Ken at ALO has regularly given me a discount on purchases and discounted shipping.

I also got a discount on my last several audio purchases

Do I now have to say that I am a member of the trade representing

1. RSA
2. Wilson Audio
3. Black Diamond Racing
4. Graham Engineering
5. Benz Micro
6. Sim Audio
7. ALO
etc.etc.etc

I also just purchased several new albums, at which time I received a "Discount", 10% off plus no tax

Am I now a member of the trade for

1. Mobile fidelity
2. Classic Records
3. Vinyl Lovers
4. RTI
5. S&P Records

If this is the case I would suspect that everyone on this forum is a shill....

Lets keep it real

The examples you gave would not require you to be labeled as a MOT because you do not have an ongoing working relationship with any of these manufacturers.
Now if Ray had said he would "knock off" some money for purchases every time you sent some business his way,.. that would be a different matter.

[scompton]

Getting a discount for multiple purchases, group buys, combined shipping discounts, etc., are different from a company setting one particular person up to get credits for getting someone to make a purchase. Those are commissions, no matter how much someone wants to spin it otherwise. I even consider them commissions when anyone who does a referral gets them. And there is nothing wrong with running a business that way.

I agree with Grizzlepaw that giving credit for referrals means that the person believes in the product. But it is still a commission.

IMO people who are getting commissions of any type, in an ongoing relationship, ie not one time only, are MOTs.

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by Grizzlepaw

let me spell out the difference for you.

I'm going to respectfully offer a little blunt advice. Keep out of this. Your opinion as to what is ethical and what isn't is totally irrelevant because you are directly involved here. Your company has shot itself in the foot a hundred different times in this thread already. We've all read the posts. You'd be wise to keep your comments on this to yourself. It's astounding that you think you still have something to say here. How deep do you want to dig the hole?

See ya
Steve

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by 883dave

Last time I purchased an amp from RSA, I mentioned I would be looking at purchasing one for my son in law in the near future.

If you are suggesting someone else spend their own money on a product, and you benefit materially from the sale, either through cash or credit, you are operating on a commission basis. If you are receiving a discount on your own order, and no one else's money is involved, you are the consumer, not the salesman.

See ya
Steve

[Grizzlepaw]

Originally Posted by bigshot

I'm going to respectfully offer a little blunt advice. Keep out of this. Your opinion as to what is ethical and what isn't is totally irrelevant because you are directly involved here. Your company has shot itself in the foot a hundred different times in this thread already. We've all read the posts. You'd be wise to keep your comments on this to yourself. It's astounding that you think you still have something to say here. How deep do you want to dig the hole?

See ya
Steve

I dunno. Do you remember how deep we buried the natural gas line?

Or am I misunderstanding the situation here? I must have mislaid the manila envelopes that we put our cash payouts in, because I can't seem to find them right at the moment.

[Wolffy]

NT