are high end cables a rip-off?

[setmenu]

Hehe...'Just R&D then'.

Well as you know, making something once the design has been
sorted can be the easiest bit!


Setmenu

[x1lexure]

Some companies talk about the purity of there copper/silver. Could refining it to such a purity up the cost? (If it really is that pure, I'd like to see another cutting of High end cables by someone again. And then have someone skilled in Chemistry examine everything in the cable. But I understand why that would be hard.)

[kelly]

Originally posted by x1lexure
Some companies talk about the purity of there copper/silver. Could refining it to such a purity up the cost? (If it really is that pure, I'd like to see another cutting of High end cables by someone again. And then have someone skilled in Chemistry examine everything in the cable. But I understand why that would be hard.)

Yup, 9N copper is more expensive than 6N copper and single crystal copper is even more.... but $1500? Hrmm.

[Hirsch]

Originally posted by kelly
Yup, 9N copper is more expensive than 6N copper and single crystal copper is even more.... but $1500? Hrmm.

The copper isn't even made by the cable companies. Not one of them could afford to tool up for it. They all order the copper wire from existing factories that can make it in bulk. The same factories supply all of the audiophile cable companies. It's what they do with it when they get it that adds the price.

[kelly]

Originally posted by Hirsch
The copper isn't even made by the cable companies. Not one of them could afford to tool up for it. They all order the copper wire from existing factories that can make it in bulk. The same factories supply all of the audiophile cable companies. It's what they do with it when they get it that adds the price.

Right, so what do they do with it exactly that justifies such a high price?

[x1lexure]

Good point Hirsch. There's really two sides to this. The Cable companies don't tell us what they do because someone would "steal" the design or because they really don't do that much. But that's why we have people who review things for us. If the cables crap then we won't waste our money because the dang companies trying to rip us one.

No thread jacking here but...that's why I like scientific method. I wish DBT was allowed here.

[Hirsch]

Originally posted by kelly
Right, so what do they do with it exactly that justifies such a high price?

Advertising agencies charge and arm and a leg these days

I had seriously high hopes for the Outlaws, which are still a good cable. But, over time, I realized that I was missing some critical information, and got back on the cable search. I have no idea what the cable companies are doing. All I know is that I can hear them doing it.

[Anders]

I have also thought much about this and I don't think the market situation is sound for cables. The problem is that for the relatively few cables that I have tested myself, the more expesive have usually been better. I have no good idea on how it is on the real high end. The only cable I have about $1000 is the Nordost Red Dawn speaker cable (rev. 1). I had an opportunity to test a demo at home and it completely blew out my previous Audioquest at $200, so it was not hard to pay $600 for it.
I don't think cable production is an effective business. There are lots of very small companies and large marketing and sales costs. A further problem is the assymetry of information as it is called in economic theory. It is very hard to really know which of all these cables are really good and which are not. If consumers had more knowledge, lots of brand would go bankrupt and prices be pushed down.
A further assymetry is that the producer knows the production cost which is a secret for the buyer. It could be 25% or 5%.
I beleive that $500 is the most that is reasonable for a really good cable. Higher prices reflect inefficiencies and/or excess profits.
Anyone who knows how much 6N and 9N copper costs?

[wasifazim]

Originally posted by kelly
Right, so what do they do with it exactly that justifies such a high price?

Look up one of jude's old posts where he slices up a Cardas interconnect..they're very intricate designs. Pricey cables from manufacturers of repute are rarely of the basic two/three-runs-of-teflon-coated-OFC-covered-by-shielding variety. There are apparently quite a number of means to one particular end ("good" sound, in this case)..whether it's Nordost's extruded silver over copper (they go to some length to point out that this is not the same as silver plating) ribbon designs or Tara Labs' rectangular core conductors etc. etc., consumers are paying for R&D (especially since there isn't one universally agreed upon recipe for great cables). And besides, products are rarely, if ever, priced according to cost of materials and production; pricing is determined by whatever the market will bear.

- Wasif

[kelly]

wasifazim
I am aware of basic economics but what the market will bear is often a determination of perceived value. Part of perceived value is whether the product performs as advertised but another part for many people, myself included, is knowing what it take to build and what kind of profit margins exist.

I did read Jude's reviews, of course, and even in those I don't "get" it. It seems to me that once the R&D phase has passed that the production costs should not be so high. If this is the case, why would a cable company who has invented a better cable continue to produce the lower line model? Why not streamline production by making ONLY the better formula cable and bring prices down?

I worry that the real answer is, "because audiophiles like to pay a lot for cables and a lower priced cable would not do as well on the market."

If I'm wrong and the Cardas (for example) do cost a lot to produce even though they have already produced more than enough to make up their R&D expenses, it's this aspect of parts and labor that I'd like to better understand. What's costing so much?