Equalizer update

[gerG]

Sort of rushed, but the info is there (I hope). Crooked pictures too!

Behringer deq2496 update

Acrobat reader required.


gerG

[zeplin]

gerg,
some day i will get this EQ. how much was it? and when you say you are using a panasonic 963sa, don't you mean the philips? i have decided that my next purchase, and i won't even be buying it (my b-day), will be a new source, which hopefully will give me a little better bass extention than with my rather "low end" sony dvd/cd. oh yeah, and sorry i never got the chance to stop by while in AZ, i was just too busy. so again, after i get the new source, i'm definitely going for an eq like the new one you just bought. so what do ya think of my decision to go for a new source?

[jpelg]

God, you are soooo tempting me, gerG! With it's optical in/outs, I could put it in between my Sony portable & Benchmark, keeping everything in the digital domain until the amp section. Damn you !

[gerG]

Hey zeplin, quite correct on my mistype. I was exhausted last night, but I wanted to get an update done before I take off to visit my family.

The Philips is an excellent choice. I really like the upsampling feature. I prefer the sound of my Sony S9000 for SACDs, but I have found damned few SACDs that I think are worth listening to.

The Behringer sells for around $300 (Musician's Friend, Guitar Center, etc.). I built the cables that go XLR to RCA. Less than $20 in parts there. It would have been less, but the Neutrik RCA connectors are $10 per pair. Very nice, but XLR on both ends would be cheaper and better both mechanically and electrically. EOW (end of whine).

A point that I forgot to make: if you want to run the 963sa with an SACD, or with a higher upsample rate, you have to go with the analog inputs, or bypass the eq altogether. In this setup the switchable amp inputs make it easy. I have it set up with an analog bypass that goes RCA to RCA and skips the eq. That was not in the photo because I need to make a short cable. The Outlaw is just too huge for a portable system like this.

jpelg, you will love it! It would also give you an upgrade path to a better player as well. I was quite stunned by the sound quality of the old Panasonic DVD A320 that I hooked up initially. DVD players make great CD transports, and they are getting cheap! Phillips has a slick little slot loading unit that would be wonderful, and Target has the damned thing on sale for $120 or so. I would be using one of those, but the 963sa works too perfectly here. It is reasonably small and light.

btw, the Behringer has a variable jitter compensator. I don't know what it does yet, so I haven't moved it from the default setting, yet.

A more gonzo approach would be a small, accurate transport, optical to an upsampling converter, optical to the Behringer, optical to a 96 khz D/A, analog to an amp. If I try that route I will skip the outboard D/A and go balanced analog to a balanced amp. Wouldn't a balanced Gilmore in a rack case be interesting? That was the initial goal, but no time to build. Some day.

As it is, this is a fun and amazing little system. I would have a tough time beating this sort of sound quality for the mony invested in the stack. At about $1100 for a system that includes everything from source to amp, does upsampling, plays SACDs, and can bring out the best in almost any set of headphones, it is one hell of a combo. Being transportable is just the ice cream on the cake (sorry to abuse an old phrase).

Another point to mention: my thanks to this board for the suggestions. Every piece here is something that I learned about on Head-Fi, right down to the inexpensive glass cable from MCM. The exception is the mini power strip, which has a flat 90 degree rotating grounded plug at the other end. Home depot has those (Belkin).

Thanks for keeping me aware guys!


gerG

[TravelLite]

Looking really nice, gerG! Excellent!

TravelLite

[j-curve]

gerG,
Thanks for this much anticipated review! You have confirmed my hopes that this would be a killer product. The ergonomics provided by the display (despite the barfy colour) and rotary controls alone would be a welcome upgrade to my DSP1124P, for sure. Optical input is just the icing on the cake. A few questions though, if I may, mostly because I'm unclear on how sampling rates are handled inside this gizmo:-

1. What does the "Sample Rate" screen do? Can you select the sample rate or is it just telling you what the input rate is?
2. When driving the optical input from a CD player (16 bit, 44.1kHz) do the internals run at 44.1kHz or is the sampling rate converted first?
3. What about the optical output? Does it mimic the format of the input or can you select the rate and resolution?
4. What about the analog outputs? Are they always running at 96kHz or do they mimic the input?
5. When running from analog inputs do the internals always run flat strap at 96kHz or is that selectable too?
6. You mentioned making balanced XLR to RCA connectors for the analog output - why not use the 6.3mm auxilliary outputs with RCA adaptors?
7. Does your XLR->RCA cable ground the negative output and take the feed from the positive?
8. How would you rate the transparency of the all-analog path?

Sorry for all the tricky questions. If the DEQ2496 is calculating (parametric & graphic) filters at different sampling rates then that means a full set of filter coefficients for each rate, which would be quite impressive. The alternative is resampling, which is easy for 48->96 or 44.1->88.2 but more challenging for 44.1->96, which I believe requires a 276 pole digital (interpolating) filter.

Although I'm wildly enthusiastic about the DEQ2496, I do think it's a bit expensive for something which by now could (and should) be part of any mid-market CD player. On the other hand, that may never happen, and if you compare the Behringer to similar products, it looks like an incredible bargain. Maybe Mr. Uli will give me a discount, since if I am not mistaken he owes me a commission on the sale of one supa-fly EQ to a total freq-freak here on Head-Fi.

Once again, thanks gerG for your interesting review.

PS: Any chance of a photo of its gizzards? I need to know if my MSCA Amp is going to fit in there.
BTW, the gaping holes behind the rack mounts can have advantages if you dare to fit a headphone amp inside the EQ. [Check my MSCA link for piccies.]

[kwkarth]

Very nice gerG, that eq is still calling my name.

[RussKon]

just a word of caution.....

behringer has had many quality control issues over the past 18 months....

i personnally had to return three behringer units for the same customer....

you find the same comments on the pro audio boards concerning behringer products....

make sure you buy from a company with a good return policy!!!!

[kwkarth]

Good cousel RussKon, I've seen /heard of QC problems with Behringer too. Nowadays, I personally feel it's good practice to buy everything from reputable dealers. I seem to attract QC problems. If anything can fail, it will when I get it. That said, I've NEVER had any quality problems with my HeadRoom MAX. I can't think of another commercial product/brand that I have not had quality problems with, somewhere along the line including Sennheiser, AKG, Grado, Meier Audio, Sony, Carver, etc. If the manufacturer/dealer is reputable and reachable, they've always taken care of the problem, thank goodness! Sometimes I can fix the problem myself and I do, but often I've had to rely upon the dealer or manufacturer to resolve the problem.

[gerG]

Hi gents, I'm back (for a while at least).

Musician's Friend has a 45 day return policy.

So, kwk, have you got one of these toys yet?

Hi j-curve, good to hear from you! Answers (or guesses) based on current limited knowledge:

1. In the mode that I am running it the rate syncs up with the input. 96 khz is the max, so it will make funny noises if you feed it a direct stream from sacd or dvda at 192 khz (I tried). If I plug in a normal CD transport it switches to the lower rate.
2. afaik, the unit runs at whatever the feed rate is. I will have to check to see if streams are converted for calculation.
3. Not know, have to check.
4. Analog is infinite (tee hee). ok, I know that you are refering to the data rate prior to conversion. Again, more digging required.
5. Similar to the above questions. 96khz from what I read.
6. I used a similar approach on the older eq, and didn't like it. It is still a jump from balanced trs to unbalanced rca, so it boils down to a connector preference. Using an adapter also adds another junction. You will just have to start saving for that balanced amp
7. Yes, per the Behringer manual.
8. I haven't tried the analog input of the eq yet. A fair question, but skipping the extra d/a and a/d steps just seemed like the natural way to go. My baseline "analog" loop bypasses the eq altogether.

Very nice work converting the eq to a surrogate amp. I will happily do the endoscopy of the 2496 if you can figure out how to fit a balanced amp inside there. Feel free to use the trs outputs as the balanced headphone sockets. I get giddy just thinking about it.

I will see what I can find out about the internal rates. First, though, I am going to power the toy up and have a listen. Next trip it is going with me!


gerG

[j-curve]

Hi gerG, thanks for your response to my numerous questions. I flicked through the Behringer manual once and it has plenty of nice diagrams but very little about how the insides work.

BTW, any attempt to rewire the rear panel plugs as headphone outputs would be very risky indeed. At least in the DSP1124P, those plugs and sockets are mounted directly to a double sided, surface mount PCB. It may be possible to add an extra (shallow) connector on the rear panel though. Good luck drilling the hole for that one!

I'm sure there's plenty of empty space in the DEQ2496 for a headphone amp though.

[gerG]

Hi j.

There is not much room in there at all. There is a space that an amp board would fit, but it is awfully close to a fenced structure labeled "high voltage section". Probably not a good environment. The entire front panel is a front plane module, so no access there.

It is such a small package that even with a couple of full sized amps sitting on top it still takes up less airspace than my old Ultracurve. What I really want now is a balanced amp in a matching rack mount case. Anybody want to build me one?

I played with the dbx Driverack over the weekend setting up a speaker system. Although the dbx is a great sounding unit with amazing capabilities, the user interface and flexibility are pathetic compared to the Behringer. I would have swapped them, but I need the crossover function of the dbx. Results were still amazing, but it just took longer than it should have.

I have pics of the Behringer guts if you want them. Drop me an email.


gerG

[Steve999]

I just got a Behringer DEQ2496 and love it. There's not much to add past gerGs definitive review. It's difficult to describe exactly how much FUN this thing is!

I would add one thing, the "wide" feature makes a very nice bare-bones tonally neutral crossfeed. It not only expands the stereo image, it can compress it too (crossfeed). The compression settings run in ten steps from 0 to .9, with .9 being quite subtle crossfeed and 0 being mono. I compared the mono to the mono button on my NAD receiver and the tonal balance was exactly the same. Then the stereo expansion steps runs from 1 up to 3, with some interesting effects that would be fun to try with speakers.

It's got a nice dynamic range expander and compressor, too, if anyone is into that type of thing. Nice for Berlioz at 2 AM.

The sound quality seems unimpeachable to me.

Thanks so much to the head-fi community for bringing this product to my attention! It's among the most extraordinary audio products I've ever run across.

[Orpheus]

you know, if you guys wanna check this eq out, you could always get it from Guitar Center (who owns Musicians Friend by the way). they offer a complete refund within 30 days, for ANY reason. i've returned many items before... even sealed packages like cables and stuff. they will ALWAYS allow the return. they ask the reason, and i go, "I don't want it." seriously. the only exception are microphones... can't return those for any reason i believe, if the box is opened.

also, never pay the asking price there. their normal price is already lower than competitors, but usually you can get at least 10% off extra. sometimes i've even talked them out of 1/2 their asking price. really.

Good cousel RussKon, I've seen /heard of QC problems with Behringer too.

i've owned 3 behringer products... a mixer, and two smaller rack units. and i've not really had any QC issues. one channel did go bad in the mixer, but well, things break down. the major beef with Behringer stuff is that they simply suck. they offer way too many features, look spectacular on the outside, but does nothing well, and sometimes does nothing even good enough.

but it sounds like Greg really likes this unit. so, it's worth a try i say. i mean, you can return it after all. EQ's might be the only thing behringer makes that's good! heh he...

[Steve999]

Yeah, Orpheus, that's accurate, the Rockville, MD, Guitar Center is where I got mine. I am absolutely in love with it. This thing is INSANE. It's like something out of some equalizer fantasy dream and then a whole lot more on top of that. FWIW, the sales clerk said they run through them pretty fast, take it with a grain of salt of course, they had 3 in stock.

I had some Christmas money I had been trying to decide how to spend for, well, 3 months now, and finally decided to get the Behringer DEQ2496.

Guitar Center noted the 30-day return policy for the Behringer in a text field on the receipt, as I was quite surprised and a little skeptical about it, but it's real. I got lucky, the sales clerk was extremely knowledgeable and enthusiastic about it and talked to me for quite a while about the features and walked me through my disbelief as he told me everything it could do. They gave me a pretty big discount on the XLR to RCA cables, too, I spent just 4 dollars more than gerG spent on the raw materials for making his cables.

Originally posted by Orpheus
you know, if you guys wanna check this eq out, you could always get it from Guitar Center (who owns Musicians Friend by the way). they offer a complete refund within 30 days, for ANY reason. i've returned many items before... even sealed packages like cables and stuff. they will ALWAYS allow the return. they ask the reason, and i go, "I don't want it." seriously. the only exception are microphones... can't return those for any reason i believe, if the box is opened.

...it sounds like Greg really likes this unit. so, it's worth a try i say. i mean, you can return it after all.