CryoTweaks Silver Interconnect

[stevenkelby]

Meat, good on you for taking the time to do this, at least you put some effort into your experiment. Experimentation is a good thing IMO. Entertaining too.

I'm sure no one wants to read my opinions or views on the methodology or results so I won't waste space with them. I'll just say that I believe you are telling the truth as you found it to be.

Just to clarify, were you using these cables for digital or analogue signal, I know you said "CD and Amp" so I assume you used the CDPs internal DAC?

[Quaddy]

Originally Posted by monolith

Since never, but that's not stopped people for just as long. See every thread involving Patrick, for examples.

x2

[meat01]

I used the CD players internal DAC. I used them as regular ICs between the amp and CD player, even though the silver ICs are supposed to be for digital. I did not use them with a DAC, which is their intended purpose, but I have heard people using digital cables as analogue ICs.

I did not do any blind testing, but I also did not hear a night or day difference let alone any differences.

I do plan on sending my paper clip ICs to others to use at meets if there is interest. I may go to the Scottsdale meet.

I am also thinking of making some ICs out of solder braid and maybe all bus wire.

[Chu]

People know what side of the debate I am on, but I have to agree that for the same reasons people can convince themselves they hear differences between cables, people can convince themselves they cannot hear differences if such differences exist.

In a sense, you really need a "believers ear" to settle this debate in the negative.

[stevenkelby]

Great plan. Hopefully you can set up some DBT. I would even just use two people, person 1wearing headphones, listening to the same few seconds of a track on A-B repeat, and person 2 randomly connects one cable, then the other, sometimes plugging the same cable back in. See if person 1 can guess which cable they are listening to. Nobody would believe the results anyway and it's unscientific, but I would believe it if I was in the room and that's all that would matter to me. Of course a negative result (no difference) still wouldn't prove to me that there is no difference, just that we didn't hear one, therefore, the changes can't be meaningful enough to matter to me, in the test system.

And I thought I wasn't going to comment!

[Chu]

@stevenkelby

What would be unscientific about it?

[jules650]

Originally Posted by vcoheda

i'm sorry but it just seems that this line was already formulated - if not already written down - long before this little science project had begun.

Every research project is biased. There's no escaping it.

I thought the original post was quite an interesting read. The OP has, however, opened the proverbial can of worms.

[vcoheda]

Originally Posted by jules650

Every research project is biased. There's no escaping it.

I thought the original post was quite an interesting read. The OP has, however, opened the proverbial can of worms.

not really. i don't think anyone really takes his post seriously, except for the few anti-cable fanatics who need something to believe in.

[meat01]

not really. i don't think anyone really takes his post seriously, except for the few anti-cable fanatics who need something to believe in.

Why wouldn't it be taken seriously? I hear about burn in day in and day out without any proof, yet a lot of people here believe in it. Is it impossible for electrons to flow through paper clips? It was an experiment and I used my own ears. The paper clips did not effect the sound quality and in reality, why would they? Please answer this?

Why would 2 feet of steel in the audio path affect the signal?

Why doesn't the steel or brass connectors in headphone amps or headphones affect the signal?

I am being as serious, professional and civil as I can be. I am curious how other metals will affect the sound quality.

[jonnywolfet]

yet another example that people are different and have different priorities. lets cross our fingers that the cable debaters stay out of this one. it was nice to read an honest review.
personally, the idea that the difference between cables and conductors is minimal or even non-existant is a very attractive one. i for one, appreciate the OPs post.
thanks.

[vcoheda]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet. ACT I Scene 5.

[stevenkelby]

Originally Posted by Chu

@stevenkelby

What would be unscientific about it?

Not double blind, uncontrolled, sample group is too small, participants are almost certainly biased, it's not falsifiable (there is no way of producing evidence for the negative e.g. "I hear no difference" is not scientifically valid).

But the no.1 reason it's unscientific is that the measurements are entirely subjective and therefore scientifically void as it would be possible for different people to do the same tests and get different results. It's not repeatable.

I'm not saying it's a waste of time, I know burn in has a big affect on the sound of the ED9, but can I prove it using the scientific method? Well, maybe I could, recording differences in wave forms and such, but I won't be going to that much trouble and expense. I don't care that much!



While we're here, I will rephrase a question I asked elsewhere that was not answered by the antagonists (sp?)

This is for everyone:

Do you accept as a fact, the proposition that at long as long as voltage and current capacity are sufficient, different power OR audio cables are capable of sounding different? For example, is it even possible that a pair of tongs welded to a fencing rail touching a piece of tinfoil clamped to a coat hanger may sound any different to a Valhalla cable?

Yes, there may be an audible difference,
or
No, there can be no audible difference.

I think the question is worth answering to give us a clue as to your feeling towards cable difference affecting sound. Are you open to it, or closed?

Seemingly for Meat, the answer so far is No.

For me, it's logical that the answer is Yes. I tried to justify and defend my belief elsewhere but I couldn't express myself sufficiently eloquently, apparently. Or, I'm just wrong, which is cool too. No proof either way (there can never be proof in the negative anyway, whereas a single scientifically valid experiment ((see above)) can give proof in the affirmative).

There is a lot of talk here about cables making audible differences but remember, without following the scientific method, they all share one thing. They are not facts, not even theories. They are all, without exception, just statements of faith.

Every scientific theory can all be proved wrong at any time, that's what makes them valid.

[meat01]

I do agree it is unscientific. It is one man's subjective opinion, as is the opinion that this experiment is absurd and paper clips can not sound as good as nordost. I can safely deduce though, that there is not a "night and day" difference between the sound quality of the paper clips and the silver and I would hope that any logical person who heard both would agree with me. I realize that "night and day" is a subjective term also, but if there were indeed audible differences between the 2 cables, they truly are subtle.

Most if all would not feel confident to blind test them correctly.

[stevenkelby]

Originally Posted by meat01

I do agree it is unscientific. It is one man's subjective opinion, as is the opinion that this experiment is absurd and paper clips can not sound as good as nordost. I can safely deduce though, that there is not a "night and day" difference between the sound quality of the paper clips and the silver and I would hope that any logical person who heard both would agree with me. I realize that "night and day" is a subjective term also, but if there were indeed audible differences between the 2 cables, they truly are subtle.

Most if all would not feel confident to blind test them correctly.

It doesn't matter what others say anyway. You satisfied yourself and that's by far the most important thing here. I do put some stock in your results, for the record, and I respect the fact that you actually did something instead of just postulating like the rest of rest

Certainly a worthwhile thread, one way or another.