Bi-wiring Paradigm speakers

[ronnielee54]

Have a 5.1 setup using Paradigm Reference Speakers. They are capable of being bi-wired. One someone please educate me on the benefits of bi-wiring please.

[Artemio]

It is a touchy subject since there is the subjective change after you do it. But I believe I can offer some objective information that might be helpful, since I own a pair of Paradigm Studio Reference 60 v2, and I be-amped them just a few months ago.

First, I must point you to an article:

BiAmp (Bi-Amplification - Not Quite Magic, But Close) - Part 1

specially this part on bi-wiring:

BiAmp (Bi-Amplification - Not Quite Magic, But Close) - Part 1

As you can read there, bi-wiring probably achieves little but it might be worth your time.

The first important thing is the amplifier you are using. I use a Yamaha RX-V1700, which is rated @ 130 W per channel. I used to have an Onkyo 650, and I believed it did a good job. After changing to a higher output one, I was impressed at the detail I was loosing. I attribute this to the inability of the Onkyo to drive them properly.

But I just bi-amped them, since the Yamaha allows you to "sacrifice" the back surround (not left and right, but the two back speakers for 7.1) and configure the amp to send the same signal as the fronts from their outputs.

There was a noticeable and measurable improvement here. I use REW and a BFD to equalize my subwoofer, and just out of curiosity I graphed the speaker's response in my room with bi-amping and without it. The response was way better when bi-amping.

Of course your mileage might vary.

[r3cc0s]

easy way to describe:

Bi-Wiring --- though not "proven" to be beneficial
Uses a two sets of cables, one side is terminted into just a pair of ground/postive wires
the other set is left termined with two sets of ground/positives

Benefits? Asides from taking anther component i.e. (*the cable*) from affecting cross over perfomance, apparently you can designate both different sets of Low frequencies or High frequencies cables to your liking...

Did I notice a difference?
I think so, but again it is likely due to the fact I went for better quality cables and that I was no longer using the little stock crappy "jumpers"

Bi-Amping
Way different...
requires a pre & two power amplifiers (well doesn't have to be power amps, but something that scales appropriately to it's either .25 or .6 inputs)

You take a pre-amp which has to have two sets of outputs
Take them to both amps
Take one set of wires to plug into the low frequency binding pots on the designiated amp.

Take one set and plug them to the high requency posts on the designiated amp.

For the people who want Solid State performance with Tube like sounds, but doesn't like the issues of compromise with Hybrid amplifiers..

Grab a power amp like a Plinius power amp for the LF and then grab yourself like a Primaluna power amp like the Prologue 5

Make sure you have a very high quality pre-amp with consistant output gains
and
volia, you can have the bottem end power of SS, and the top end refinement of EL34 tubes

then again... amps scale at different levels, of it's all about finding a happy medium, but at least you can change the characteristics at will


I'm not the kind of guy to bi-amp

[Brian_the_King]

Originally Posted by ronnielee54

...someone please educate me on the benefits of bi-wiring please.

There are none.

As the two posters above have said [although they beat around the bush ]

I will also agree with the two previous posters that bi-amping is a whole other story, which can actually result in a tangible sq increase.

edit: ^ IMO

Also, I have more articles in addition to what Artemio linked

The Difference Between Biamping vs. Biwiring
Bi-Wiring From Amplifier To Loudspeaker
Bi-wiring Part 2: The Cable Conundrum

[r3cc0s]

Originally Posted by Brian_the_King

There are none.

As the two posters above have said [although they beat around the bush ]

I will also agree with the two previous posters that bi-amping is a whole other story, which can actually result in a tangible sq increase.

edit: ^ IMO

Also, I have more articles in addition to what Artemio linked

The Difference Between Biamping vs. Biwiring
Bi-Wiring From Amplifier To Loudspeaker
Bi-wiring Part 2: The Cable Conundrum

Bi-Amping to me is an unnatural way to try to achieve what you subjectively consider good sound..

Just like anything, simplicity is best

You can find powerful intergrated amps, such as Ayre whom even use passive-pre amp stage

Which basically gives you everything you should "need"

Matching speakers to amps is hard enough, let alone matching amps to amps, then speakers

& yea... again - Bi-Wiring I just don't belive is beneficial... but most people have crap jumpers on their binding posts for most bi-wireable speakers.

[infinitesymphony]

Originally Posted by r3cc0s

but most people have crap jumpers on their binding posts for most bi-wireable speakers.

Bingo... I tried bi-wiring with a split from the amp, and I tried a single run but replaced the jumper bridges with cuts of speaker wire; both yielded similar results, and both sounded better than using the jumpers.

ronnielee54, try replacing the jumpers with speaker wire, as it may be the jumpers themselves that degrade sound quality. As Artemio said, depending on your amp or receiver, it may be possible to passively bi-amplify your speakers instead.

[noseallinit]

a little confused on the last two post about passive bi-amp. can you please give me more detail?

maybe this is something I have wondered about. if you have a receiver or integrated amp that has A and B speaker outputs, can you benefit from running the A terminals to the high frequency input of the speakers and then the B terminals to the low frequency input of the speakers?

[Artemio]

What you need is an integrated amp that has bi-amping as an option. The Yamaha RX-V1700 and several more do. I am not taht sure about A-B speakers, since it would depend on what the amp is doing.

I used to have one with A and B, but it couldn't send the same signal to both. If yours can accomplish this, maybe it is worth a try since it could possibly be the exact same thing. You just need to be sure that the exact same signal is being sent to both (if the manual helps in this respect)

[noseallinit]

Originally Posted by Artemio

What you need is an integrated amp that has bi-amping as an option. The Yamaha RX-V1700 and several more do. I am not taht sure about A-B speakers, since it would depend on what the amp is doing.

I used to have one with A and B, but it couldn't send the same signal to both. If yours can accomplish this, maybe it is worth a try since it could possibly be the exact same thing. You just need to be sure that the exact same signal is being sent to both (if the manual helps in this respect)

do you mean an integrated amp with pre out's on them?

the integrated amp and receiver I am speaking of is a NAD and a Rotel. both will allow the A and B speakers to be played at the same time with the same signal.

[Artemio]

Then I believe you have no problem my friend. I meant that the power amplifier should have the capability, but iof both do, you should give it a try an dlook out for better mid-low performance.. that'w where I noticed the heaviest change.

[Lonfident]

I wouldn't bother bi-wiring. I've never heard any difference, even when using a Proceed Amp 2 which has two outputs a side, combined with my bi-amp speakers

Only do it if you have a vivid imagination.