Portable Setup.. WITH DYNAMIC RANGE!

[Xander]

After all the talk of dynamic range and all that other hogwash (not really). I decided to run a test. I copied a track onto two CDs, one normalized and one not. If you KNOW whats missing, lack of dynamic range can really suck. If you've only heard the recording one way, and like it anyway, it's not that big of an issue.. Atleast not for me.

Anyway, I've been thinking about making my rig a portable one, even while im at home, since I move around so much. Right now I've got the AKG K401s, and I need an amp to drive them well, that's portable. I'm also looking for a good PCDP to use with this setup....

My question is.. is there a way to over-come the ****ty soundquality of a PCDP's line out / headphone jack, and defeat the lack of dynamic range? Are there any amps that have a digital in, that I can plug my PCDP in to that has it's own D/A converter, etc?

Ok, last question...

Are there any MANLY PCDP's out there? All I see in the stores are these cheesy crappy ones with a bunch of useless doo-dads MegaBass buttons, etc... Not to mention, they all look like freakin' sneakers or something. Bright orange and neon green with rubber boots around them, funny jog dial things that look like they came off a anti-matter containment vessile of some sort...

HELP! I'm not going to be jogging around with the CD player, so it doesnt have to be skip proof.. It can be used, old, I don't care...

[skippy]

i don't think there are any current pcdp's that are quality. though i've read that old models like the optimus 3400, certain old sonys, and denons are pretty good.

the only place i've really seen portable DAC/amps are the DIY boards. i have seen small outboard DAC's, but they're for home use or computer use. a few mods could be done to make them portable though. i have an audio alchemy DACman that i plan to modify for portable use, but i haven't got around to buying a pcdp with a digital out yet.

[Russ Arcuri]

Originally posted by Xander
My question is.. is there a way to over-come the ****ty soundquality of a PCDP's line out / headphone jack, and defeat the lack of dynamic range? Are there any amps that have a digital in, that I can plug my PCDP in to that has it's own D/A converter, etc?

A couple comments.

1. Most PCDPs with a line out jack sound just fine through the line out. I don't know where you got the impression the line out jacks sounded bad.

2. Many modern PCDPs have low-quality headphone jacks -- mostly because they're underpowered. Since you're going to be using a portable headphone amp, this point is moot.

3. The D/A converters in "name" CD players like Sony and Panasonic are fine. There are slight differences, so you should audition both and decide which one sounds best to you.

4. Most PCDPs do not compress dynamic range. I don't know where you got that impression. The "compression" used for 40 or 45 second anti-skip circuits is not the same as dynamic range compression. Rather, it results in a lack of accuracy and detail. The only CD players which will compress dynamic range are those using a certain flavor of AVLS or similar technologies.

5. The best PCDP available right now, in my opinion, is the Panasonic SL-CT570. It has a decent headphone jack (though it will likely be inadequate for your AKGs). It works great driving my KSC-35s without a headphone amp. It has a line out, so it's easy to use with a headphone amp. And it has three anti-skip settings -- Off, 10 second, and 40 second.

The 10 second option does not compress the digital bitstream at all, so there is supposedly no degradation of sound quality when in use. It sounds good to me. And even though you won't be jogging with your portable setup, you WILL want to have anti-skip, even for wandering around your house. This is clearly the best option.

6. Get yourself a nice, truly portable headphone amp like one of the CHA 47 Altoids amps. This, along with a decent PCDP like the Panasonic 570, will allow you to have good sound quality and wander freely.

Russ "The Peripatetic Audiophile"

[skippy]

personally i agree with xander, current portables do sound horrible even out of the line out jack. i can't think of one portable that sounds anywhere near as a good as an entry level home cd player out of th eline out jack.

[dgs]

Hmmm...

I agree that many hom cdps sound better than most pcdps. some don't.

But as for the "compression" issue, I am with Russ. I think, Xander, that the compression you speak of is different than normalization and "compression of dynamic range."

When I "normalize" a wav file, it retains its dynamic range. What normalization does is scan for the LOUDEST point in the song, and then sets that point a number that I set, and then resets all other dynamics relative to that "loudest" part.

Compression--using a compressor to limit the upper and lower limits of the dynamic range of a piece of music, is something different altogether, used sometimes when people are trying to record music to listen to in their cars (where soft parts get lost and loud parts put their head through the roof).

Compression for antishock purposes is a totally different animal. This is the compression of digital data, not dynamic range, in order to provide shock protection.

Have I misunderstood what you meant, or does this make sense to you?

[Russ Arcuri]

Originally posted by skippy
personally i agree with xander, current portables do sound horrible even out of the line out jack. i can't think of one portable that sounds anywhere near as a good as an entry level home cd player out of th eline out jack.

I don't know what to tell you. I've done A/B comparisons between a few portables (line out, not headphone jack) and a couple different rack CD players. And the portables usually compare well (almost no difference, if levels are properly matched). Maybe that's it -- you can't do a valid A/B test unless you're sure the levels are matched.

People interpret tiny differences in volume as differences in quality. The source that's even slightly louder sounds subjectively "better." Human ears are notoriously bad at recognizing small differences in volume as differences in volume.

In any case, my advice still stands. Either Xander will agree with me or not -- but he should certainly give it a try. I'd suggest a Panasonic 570 portable, in 10 second anti-shock mode, driving an Altoids amp (or a Porta-Corda) from the line out. Not super-portable, but about as close as you can get with AKGs and a headphone amp.

The super-portable version would be the Panasonic 570 driving a pair of Koss KSC-35s directly from the headphone jack. Not as good in absolute terms as the system above, but VERY nice when ultimate portability is required.

Russ "The Peripatetic Audiophile"

[skippy]

i haven't tried too many portables, only the ones i have and the ones my friends have. and i've actually done level matching with an spl meter, or a multimeter. so far there is simply no comparison between any portable cd player i've heard and entry level home cd players or DAC's that i've A/B'ed. the portables simply suck. but i guess it's all a matter of opinion.

[Russ Arcuri]

Originally posted by skippy
i haven't tried too many portables, only the ones i have and the ones my friends have. and i've actually done level matching with an spl meter, or a multimeter. so far there is simply no comparison between any portable cd player i've heard and entry level home cd players or DAC's that i've A/B'ed. the portables simply suck. but i guess it's all a matter of opinion.

How do they suck? What is it about the sound they produce that you don't like?

The point here is that Xander WANTS some type of portable setup. You seem to be discouraging him from even trying one out. "...portables simply suck." He's not going to come up with anything even remotely "portable" with a rack CD player.

"Hey, Xander, what's in that 70lb military-style backpack you're wearing?"

"It's my NAD 502, powered by a 12V marine battery through a power inverter."

"Oh."

Russ "The Peripatetic Audiophile"

[dgs]

okay. 'nough said. pcdp recommendations.

I have the 470. It sounds okay with the headphone jack (but will never power your akgs). The jack has a hum (both of my 470s had that problem), but it's tolerable. The line out is pretty nice for a portable sound, I think at least. I run it through a CHA 47 which has enough juice to power my 580s pretty well.

I really liked my panasonic 460. Hard to get these days. Try: www. mysimon.com for a list of places. Better headphone amp, essentially silent noise floor, slightly more neutral-sounding presentation than the 470 which is, by comparison, a little laid back.

Sony D-Ej725. The headphone out on this is TERRIBLE. THe line out sounds pretty good. I use this exclusively for digital out recording to my MD player.

There is definitely a sacrifice for portability in many respects, except, of course, in portability (which for me is really important because I'm forever on the go). These are the only pcdps I've been using for the past few years.

EDIT:
Realized that I didn't address the issue of dynamic range. IMO, of the three I've used recently, I'd rate them as following:

460: the best of this lot. Definitely more dynamic range than the other two.
470: more laid back with somewhat less dynamic range.
725: ugh.

[a1leyez0nm3]

I have greatest (In my opinion) pcdp, the sony D-T405. Optical/Digital out, radio (IT doesn't degrade the sound on this cd player, well atleast that I have noticed.) 10 sec esp, VERY POWERFULL amp for a portable. I bought mine in 1996 for $200. I am not sure where you could get one, because they are very rare, I have never seen another one apart from mine. It was top of the line at the time. 1-bit DAC. I'm not sure if I would ever sell part with it though...
Another great pcdp that is new is the Pansonic SL-CT780, I haven't noticed a degradement from the anti skip at all, compared with my other pcdp. It has great sound, but the amp is not very powerfull. The line out works well. Mine has an aluminum lid and a remote (corded).

[a1leyez0nm3]

Ok, maybe not the greatest ever ,but it was good~!