iPod Touch Sound Quality is quite bad.

[thechungster]

I have the iPod touch 1st gen, I would say the sound is average. I'm not a true audiophile, yet I like nice sounds. Is the Cowon S9 really good for sound quality?

[Bullseye]

Well guys, I personally don't see how some people are shocked about itouch SQ being very average/low for the price tag:

Directly from apple

"The funnest iPod ever." (Period included, in case you "doubt it")
Below as new aspects: "Sleek new design", "...mobile game on", "Music just got smarter"

Like c'mon, where did they even mention Sound Quality??? I can only see that "music is getting smarter", and that it is "the funnest", but it is quite hard to find information related to sound on this product.

Definitely this product wasn't released towards audiophiles, not even focused on sound. It was focused to do other things good BUT music. Internet browser & games work like a charm, my brother has one and I admit it, but SQ isn't just there. I will ask him if I can try it to do an A/B comparison between Cowon D2 & itouch + Grado sr225

I will level volume on a same track, same bitrate, flat EQ, etc. Then after that i will do it with the best setting for each player with that same track (as obviously when one is using his mp3 player he tries to make it sound as best as possible, not as the rest of the competition)

EDIT: in case you where wondering about the Cowon D2: D2
Check in the flash presentation (overview), where it says "Powerful" the second thing and scrolling down you can see "Unrivaled SQ", i am saying this not because i am a Cowon fan, and I like watching that (in my sig you can see i also own sony, sansa, and have been a previous owner of creative and ipod (shuffle 1st gen)), i am saying this because you can see where the products are directed in the market by each company. I think links speak by themselves

Corrected mistake

[Spad]

It says "funnest" not "funniest." I hope you feel as dumb as your post.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Spad

It says "funnest" not "funniest." I hope you feel as dumb as your post.

Oh my god, I can't believe that as english is not my mother language I corrected it without even caring to read it clear. I think i am the first guy in the whole world to commit the first grammar/reading mistake (irony).

Well Spad, seems you are an ipod lover. However i just pointed out something which is a fact. Just look at both sites and tell me where do you have audio quality stated on the apple product. Does that really mean that the Cowon D2 is better than the itouch in SQ, period? Not really, but that when you buy the D2 and itouch you will expect the D2's sound to be good as it has been sold as that. And you actually get it. It is one of the finest of the market.

[Spad]

Well, I'll be the first to admit that the iPod is a complete failure as a comedian.

BTW, if you're listening to that D2 with an Sr-225 or Shure Se-210, how do you know what it actually sounds like? Try some quality 'phones and practically anything will sound better than your source.

[Bullseye]

So you are saying that Grado sr225 are not good 'phones? I know Shure Se-210 aren't the greatest IEMs around, but they are decent for the price they have (and way better than any bundled earbud)

And if "Anything" is a home system it would be bad if it didn't sound better than my D2, mainly due to its price difference. However when talking about portable players the D2 is at the top of the list.

[Ihatepopupads]

D2 is above average, comparable to older nano.

Cowon D2 MP3 Player Lab Tests. - PC World

Some bass roll-off with the load and a narrow soundstage.

Touch 2g and nano 4g have better output.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/produ...pod_touch.html

Good soundstage and no frequency deviance with a 30 ohm load.

Lab test of 1st gen. touch

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/produ...pod_touch.html

pretty close to d2 (except wider imaging) and they used similar codec- wolfson

D2 has better eq no doubt.

[Spad]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

So you are saying that Grado sr225 are not good 'phones? I know Shure Se-210 aren't the greatest IEMs around, but they are decent for the price they have (and way better than any bundled earbud)

And if "Anything" is a home system it would be bad if it didn't sound better than my D2, mainly due to its price difference. However when talking about portable players the D2 is at the top of the list.

Are we speaking of "good" here? If your objective is to simply enjoy your music then anything that furthers that goal is "good" enough, including the supplied buds. But as your taste and ear evolves you may well begin to think otherwise. If you could afford anything you wanted, would you think them good enough?

There are many here, students, teens, etc., who, often due to necessity, feel much as you do. But there is also a smattering--perhaps a large one--for whom the finest dap, IEMs, amps and so forth represent nothing more than chump-change. Do you really think we're all simply "fanboys" or too dumb to know what we truly want? Do you really feel the need to "enlighten" us? Are you honestly qualified to do so?

Some of us have been in high-end audio for decades. And for some, if the D2 were half its current price and the touch price doubled, we'd still prefer the touch based, if nothing else, on how beautifully it integrates with our Macs.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Spad

Are we speaking of "good" here? If your objective is to simply enjoy your music then anything that furthers that goal is "good" enough, including the supplied buds. But as your taste and ear evolves you may well begin to think otherwise. If you could afford anything you wanted, would you think them good enough?

There are many here, students, teens, etc., who, often due to necessity, feel much as you do. But there is also a smattering--perhaps a large one--for whom the finest dap, IEMs, amps and so forth represent nothing more than chump-change. Do you really think we're all simply "fanboys" or too dumb to know what we truly want? Do you really feel the need to "enlighten" us? Are you honestly qualified to do so?

Some of us have been in high-end audio for decades. And for some, if the D2 were half its current price and the touch price doubled, we'd still prefer the touch based, if nothing else, on how beautifully it integrates with our Macs.

To the first paragraph. My objective is to enjoy my music in the best way possible, taking in account the money i am spending on it, and what I am getting for it. If i could afford anything I wanted, I wouldn't be using a portable player as home rig. I would have, after research, the best sounding full system (cd based, vinyl, whatever I preferred most) to my ears, because "the best" is subjective, as this thread is. It is true me ears will "evolve" into listening to Hi-Fi systems, but I have been a piano player since little, have listened to classical music all my life and still do, and i have reached the level to understand it (that some people might think it is stupid), so my ears are quite trained with music interpretation, and subtle dynamics. Meaning music is not something new for me.

To the second paragraph: I completely disagree. In my case not only after I bought my first portable player (the sony a829 player) i kept looking for a "better" player (found the D2 which I now enjoy so much), and after that i even bought the sansa clip for all the praise in SQ it had gotten. Now after 2 days since I bought my grados i am still reading for peoples opinions to other higher-end headphones and brands. I do that because i know there is "better", and i try to find what is missing in my current rig, that other better, more expensive music sources have.
By asking if I think people here are too "dumb" or some nonsense like that, you are actually putting your angry words in my mouth. And I wasn't trying to "enlighten" anyone, I was just showing HOW different two companies can advertise their products, and to where they aim their products (apple tries to focus their itouch to a wider range of people than cowon does with their D2) -> At least that is how I see it, some people might support me, others not.

Final paragraph: Yeah i know people here have been into Hi-Fi for a long long time, and that is why others (like me) come here for feedback, comparisons, reviews, opinions, etc. Also as you said some people would buy a player no matter what, others won't. That was obvious from the start.

Well Spad, I respect your opinion, but I just supported this thread in one way different from the already posted. You might dislike it, but it wasn't meant to start any sort of fight.

Edit: Sorry for any grammar mistake, or incorrect expression you might find.

[Spad]

I must say for such a musically sophisticated young man, you seem unusually susceptible to marketing hype, Bullseye. You should learn to take ads, particularly American ads, with a bit of salt.

BTW, you shouldn't consider any of my remarks as "angry." I'm simply amused by some of your statements. You apparently premised your remarks on a misreading of "funnest" (even though you repeated it) and then proceeded to take Apple to task for your own mistake.

Why not just stick with what pleases you personally and allow the rest of us to do the same? Surely you don't seriously think our choice of daps, regardless of brand, reflects our character--or do you?

[shigzeo]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Well guys, I personally don't see how some people are shocked about itouch SQ being very average/low for the price tag:

Directly from apple

"The funniest iPod ever." (Period included, in case you "doubt it")
Below as new aspects: "Sleek new design", "...mobile game on", "Music just got smarter"

Like c'mon, where did they even mention Sound Quality??? I can only see that "music is getting smarter", and that it is "the funniest", but it is quite hard to find information related to sound on this product.

Definitely this product wasn't released towards audiophiles, not even focused on sound. It was focused to do other things good BUT music. Internet browser & games work like a charm, my brother has one and I admit it, but SQ isn't just there. I will ask him if I can try it to do an A/B comparison between Cowon D2 & itouch + Grado sr225

I will level volume on a same track, same bitrate, flat EQ, etc. Then after that i will do it with the best setting for each player with that same track (as obviously when one is using his mp3 player he tries to make it sound as best as possible, not as the rest of the competition)

EDIT: in case you where wondering about the Cowon D2: D2
Check in the flash presentation (overview), where it says "Powerful" the second thing and scrolling down you can see "Unrivaled SQ", i am saying this not because i am a Cowon fan, and I like watching that (in my sig you can see i also own sony, sansa, and have been a previous owner of creative and ipod (shuffle 1st gen)), i am saying this because you can see where the products are directed in the market by each company. I think links speak by themselfs

so, if i market my cardboard as sound better than your hifi: in fact i specifically say it is the best and more powerful, you will buy it? i wonder why cowon marketed their products like that? hmmm....

[Bullseye]

Well to speak the truth i first thought about buying an itouch (when my old Creative Zen Nx decided to stop working after 6-7 years) About it being the "funn(i)est" I just said it using my self sense of irony

When i decided i wanted to buy something else I was searching for SQ, and didn't care what each company said in their site, as i do now. I did watch apple adds about the new apple players, and what was "new" in them, and got to dislike their way of trying to sell you something as if it were something revolutionary... (Like the genius mode, more (some useless) apps, and the ability to play games -I didn't want to play games, wanted to listen to music-) What i look for is individual opinions. Basically when I read reviews i don't go for the good ones, on the contrary, I check the ones that say what is lacking in that product, and then try to see how many people think the same way about it... Edit: Actually it was mor complex than that, and had more steps, but that was one of the main points of my research, to know the defects of the player and see if I would like it that way, as no player/device is perfect

I have spent loads of hours trying to decide if I should buy Cowon D2 or Sony a820 or even the cheap sansa Clip. Not to mention how much time I spent deciding between buying Grado sr80 or sr225.

@shigzeo: I only used cowon's site as an example where they gave information (in their own way) as how their player sounds. I even gave details about where it came, so that people could get my point.

I believe, though, that there are some cases of people who will buy some product if they put it that way, but it is definitely not my case

[shigzeo]

i am not a grado fan but those are good phones. on a site that is about headphones, no one should make fun of another's choice even ibuds. i think that if i were more into rock i would probably be a grado guy.

i am a trance head though so i went beyer (love).

as for other players if you want: i have owned many of the fotm players on this thread. the d2 is a good player and peforms well when not driving anything (amp). however, it does not drive headphones very well without an amp. i came from d2 to touch. i hated apple products for audio for the same reason you do but hated mp3 in general as i was an md guy.

the touch 1g is perfectly average or above average for sound. the d2 is the same. neither are great. the new touch is above average.

since 90% of daps fall into the average sound category, there is nothing to worry about but cowon have not been honest with customers. their marketing has with other companies (sony to name only one) has been about overstating sq or features to get customers in. sony have even lied and then kept the published material as reference (atrac3plus versus mp3 128 listening test).

i love my sony machines for this: great recording capability. and dislike them for the hiss though the s636 is much less hissy than the 828.

what i like about apple is that they do not assume anything into their adverts about sq. however, our market want to be told what to think so they are at a loss. they have never made a below average sounding player and often make ones that are slightly above average or very good but their market is toward people who want to enjoy their music, not people who want to read about spec (even if untrue).

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Spad

Why not just stick with what pleases you personally and allow the rest of us to do the same? Surely you don't seriously think our choice of daps, regardless of brand, reflects our character--or do you?

I never forbid anyone to use what I like, or to make them stop liking what they want (seriously, where do you get this? ) And again, I don't remember making any association between brands-character I also didn't blame apple for anything, i just criticized their marketing

I am also amused by some of your assumptions over what I think/like/am influenced by...

EDIT: Bragging is something companies who are selling their goods have to do in order to get the attention of people who don't take their time looking for pros and cons and user thoughts about their products. I am on the side of people who search and read a lot before buying, and even when I buy i keep searching after wards.

[Feather225]

I use Itouch 2G, happy with the sound using westone 3 and ESW9, no complaints.