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| Portable Source Gear Discussion of portable audio source gear, like iPods, other digital audio players (DAPs), MD players, portable CD players. |
01-21-2008, 01:10 PM
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1000+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,465
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Nice one Ipodhappy for posting over at the Apple forums. On an unrelated topic, my cover flow seems to be slower than before 
EDIT:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by smallmouth
I was wondering why I haven't noticed this problem.
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The hiss for me occurs regardless of what I do
Last edited by DJShadow; 01-21-2008 at 01:21 PM.
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01-21-2008, 08:19 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 7,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutz
I've also noticed that there is significant DC offset even while music is playing. I don't think I will be using any of my good headphones with this iPod until they fix this issue with the DC offset!
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This is the post that had me set my Classic 160 back to 1.0.3 (thank again, jantze). It's one thing to me if DC offset is found after off-by-pause, but another to read that someone is measuring it during music playback.
So I'm back to 1.0.3, got re-synced overnight, and the hiss problem is now gone.
I'll wait until I read of a certain fix for the hiss/offset problem introduced with 1.1 before I upgrade again.
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01-21-2008, 08:49 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
Tells us when we're offset.
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 2,395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ
"Can someone explain what DC offset means and why it can cause damage to your headphones? I'm curious.
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Sure. Audio/Music/Sound/etc is AC - or alternating current. It means if you connected it up to an oscilloscope you would see waves on the screen that look somewhat like a sine wave. DC stands for direct current. If you saw DC on an oscilloscope you would see a straight line going left to right somewhat above or below the mid-line of the scope which represents 0V.
When you hear music coming through your headphones it is because the sinusodal AC is pushing and pulling the diaphragm away from it's neutral (electricity free state) of the headphone causing the air to vibrate. If DC current is present it will either constantly pull (or push, depending on the polarity of the DC) away from it's neutral position. That constant force on the earphones from the DC can damage the headphones voice coils.
Hope this answers your question!
Brad
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01-21-2008, 09:23 PM
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500+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jude
This is the post that had me set my Classic 160 back to 1.0.3 (thank again, jantze). It's one thing to me if DC offset is found after off-by-pause, but another to read that someone is measuring it during music playback.
So I'm back to 1.0.3, got re-synced overnight, and the hiss problem is now gone.
I'll wait until I read of a certain fix for the hiss/offset problem introduced with 1.1 before I upgrade again.
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Jude,
Have you seen any other sites discussing this issue? Im struggling to find anything, even on Mac Rumors. It surprises me that this issue has gone so un-noticed.
__________________
Portable:iPod Classic 160Gb > UE Triple/Fi 10 Pro > ATH-ESW9
Home:Pro-Ject Xpression Mk3 > Naim CD5i > Naim NAC122x > Naim NAP150x > Mission M71i > DIY Floor Standers | Shanling PH100 > DT990
Other Stuff:MacBookPro | Nikon D40x > 18-200VR | LG Viewty
FEEDBACK
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01-21-2008, 11:18 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 7,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.N
Jude,
Have you seen any other sites discussing this issue? Im struggling to find anything, even on Mac Rumors. It surprises me that this issue has gone so un-noticed.
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No, I haven't seen much about it elsewhere--most of what I've read links back to this thread (look at the linkbacks at the bottom of the page). Seriously, though, there aren't too many forums in which any of its members would be inclined to measure DC offset from an iPod. 
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01-21-2008, 11:24 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutz
Sure. Audio/Music/Sound/etc is AC - or alternating current. It means if you connected it up to an oscilloscope you would see waves on the screen that look somewhat like a sine wave. DC stands for direct current. If you saw DC on an oscilloscope you would see a straight line going left to right somewhat above or below the mid-line of the scope which represents 0V.
When you hear music coming through your headphones it is because the sinusodal AC is pushing and pulling the diaphragm away from it's neutral (electricity free state) of the headphone causing the air to vibrate. If DC current is present it will either constantly pull (or push, depending on the polarity of the DC) away from it's neutral position. That constant force on the earphones from the DC can damage the headphones voice coils.
Hope this answers your question!
Brad
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Thank you Clutz.  Sure did.
__________________
Team Musical Truth Headphones ☊ → Sennheiser HD800 (modified) + APureSound V3 XLR w/ Rhodium Furutech + Q resistance adapters (on occasion)
DAC → Audio-gd Reference One DAC ::: Transport/Source → Logitech Transporter (w/ iPod Touch controller) :::
Amp → Audio-gd Phoenix ::: Coming soon: Balanced ß22 + σ22 (custom dual chassis)
Power → PS Audio Power Plant Premier ::: Virtual Dynamics Master LE 2.0 + Power 3 ::: Locus Design Group Axis ::: Audio-gd Exclusive (x2)
::::::::::::::: PS Audio Noise Harvester ::: Cobalt Cable Ultimate Power
Interconnects → Blue Jeans Cables BNC ::: Audio-gd Sharkwire silver CAST & XLR ::: Locus Design Group custom CAST & DC power cables
FOR SALE:
Audio-gd Phoenix balanced headphone amplifier/preamp $975 + shipping
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01-22-2008, 02:21 AM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutz
That constant force on the earphones from the DC can damage the headphones voice coils.
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Clutz, do you know how this damage would manifest itself? Would the driver go silent or sound very distorted, or would the deterioration be more subtle?
I just want to make sure I didn't damage my phones for the short time I used them with the iPod on 1.1.
Rick
__________________
Sources: PC/iPod Classic 120GB/Sony S616F/Sansa Clip 8GB/Cowon D2+
DAC/Amps: HOTUSB1/D3 Python/Penguin Caffeine Ultra/Minibox-E+
Phones: Grado SR225, Yuin OK1, PK1, G1A & G2A (w/ headband mod), Koss KSC75, KSC35, Etymotic ER4P/S
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01-22-2008, 03:42 PM
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Junior Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1
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I to would like to know how I can tell if damage has been caused as just days before the update and the hiss/crackle problem started, I ventured into the world of good portable sound with a pair of Super.fi 5 pro's. 
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01-22-2008, 05:49 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
Tells us when we're offset.
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 2,395
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I'm unaware of any way of directly testing for damage caused by DC offset in the headphones. The most important test would be that there is an audible difference in the sound quality.
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01-22-2008, 08:31 PM
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Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 62
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Should this damage occour immediately or only when the DC is applied over longer time?
Do headphones differ in sensitivity to DC (maybe by impedance)?
__________________
iPod touch 3G 64GB
Shure SE310
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01-22-2008, 10:02 PM
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Junior Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1
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Yes, i recently upgraded to the 1.1 Firmware in my 80GB classic, and was at a friends house when my headphones went shot. At first i thought it was the ipod itself that was messed up... then i tried my friends headphones and they sounded great, for a matter of a few minutes, until they also shot. Both headphones now are way over modulated now and sound horrible, so bad i need to replace my $60 set, and his $20 set. It really makes me upset that they would supply such a harmful realease.
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01-22-2008, 10:34 PM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lansing, KS
Posts: 451
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I guess I am the luck few whose iPod Classic model does not have any hissing issue after the firmware 1.1 update...not yet anyway. I am using LOD to my portable amps. This definitely will suck if this firmware update causing any damage to my amps or headphones. Hopefully Apple will rectify this situation real soon. I am sorry to hear, mrfenderbender, that your headphone is damaged by this.
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01-22-2008, 10:45 PM
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500+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Abilene TX
Posts: 985
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I have 1.1 and I am not hearing anything while my player is off. Maybe I am lucky not to have this problem.
__________________
Ipod Classic 120>Pico>Ue-11 Pro
Team UE-11pro
Team UE-5c
Team Tea-Fi
Past phones.-Sony ex51, sony ex71, shure e2c, shure e3c, shure e5c,ES2, other cheap buds from every manufacturer.
Past player-ipod classic 160gb, Creative Zen vision:M, Ipod 3g, many cd players and a few MD players
Past amps- RSA Hornet M, RSA Tomahawk
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01-22-2008, 11:02 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
Tells us when we're offset.
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 2,395
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Just because you're not hearing anything doesn't mean your iPod doesn't have the DC offset problem. The only way to be sure would be with an unused male 1/8th TRS jack and a DMM.
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01-22-2008, 11:28 PM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 158
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I updated my ipod before I found out about all this. I have the static issue. Now I just make sure to unplug the LOD before shutting down the ipod.
I have noticed that if the ipod is off for a while, then I plug the LOD back in, there is no static. So maybe after like 5 mins it truly shuts off and doesn't just sit in stand by off.
Downgrading isn't an option for me. I don't use itunes like normal people do. I don't have a library, I don't sync. I like to manage it all manually. Mainly because itunes is a big POS. So downgrading = copying all the music over and redoing all the playlists. Major pain in the ass.
__________________
JVC Air Cushion/FX66
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80ohm w/Black gel pads
PA2V2
Ipod 80GB 6th gen w/LOD
Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty
Last edited by deviationer; 01-22-2008 at 11:31 PM.
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