Amp3 Pro2 and the STUDIO

[average_joe]

Woody, how much ear time does your AMP3 get?

[Woody469]

Originally Posted by average_joe

Woody, how much ear time does your AMP3 get?

Alot, if I am not listening to it I leave it running. I want it "burned in" the best it can be. (remember, not only the Amp3 Pro2 needs burning in but also the headphones and cable.) But I really do like the thing alot. With the Zino's, the sound is nice and full, yet incredibly detailed. I am probably the only one that is not so concerned about it's volume limitations. I think it is "hi end" but at a budget price. Very satisfied.

[dana789]

I just received my AMP3 pro2, and have been enjoying it along with the earbuds. My interest in audio dates back to the original transistor radios, through cassette tapes and onto the digital age. Listening to my first portable CD player through a cheap pair of headphones was a revelation I will never forget (Dire Straits, Money for Nothing). The AMP3 represents another significant milestone in my experience.

My question concerns the mechanisms behind burn-in of a solid state device. I apologize in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I did a search and came up with nothing, other than the fact that most sophisticated users seem to agree it's important. I understand how headphones or tubes can burn-in as the mechanical properties of the key elements could change with usage (fatigue, thermal cycling, etc). But what would change in a solid state device? I realize no components really function like our idealized models (v=ir, i = C dv/dt, etc), and I suspect there are probably second-order characteristics that change with usage, heating, etc. I found one posting where someone claims headphone cables need burn in. Really? Does anyone know what the specific effects are? Would putting the player in a warm place accomplish the same thing or is the actual flow of current critical? Can someone help me out or point to a good discussion? Thanks in advance.

dana789

[average_joe]

Originally Posted by Woody469

Alot, if I am not listening to it I leave it running. I want it "burned in" the best it can be. (remember, not only the Amp3 Pro2 needs burning in but also the headphones and cable.) But I really do like the thing alot. With the Zino's, the sound is nice and full, yet incredibly detailed. I am probably the only one that is not so concerned about it's volume limitations. I think it is "hi end" but at a budget price. Very satisfied.

Good to hear, and I was listening to my Fuze without the AMP3 the other day because of music selection on the Fuze and man, it was just not involving to me. So I went to get the AMP3 to connect via LOD from the Fuze and the music became involving again. I am spoiled with the AMP3...hi end without the high end price!

Originally Posted by dana789

I just received my AMP3 pro2, and have been enjoying it along with the earbuds. My interest in audio dates back to the original transistor radios, through cassette tapes and onto the digital age. Listening to my first portable CD player through a cheap pair of headphones was a revelation I will never forget (Dire Straits, Money for Nothing). The AMP3 represents another significant milestone in my experience.

My question concerns the mechanisms behind burn-in of a solid state device. I apologize in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I did a search and came up with nothing, other than the fact that most sophisticated users seem to agree it's important. I understand how headphones or tubes can burn-in as the mechanical properties of the key elements could change with usage (fatigue, thermal cycling, etc). But what would change in a solid state device? I realize no components really function like our idealized models (v=ir, i = C dv/dt, etc), and I suspect there are probably second-order characteristics that change with usage, heating, etc. I found one posting where someone claims headphone cables need burn in. Really? Does anyone know what the specific effects are? Would putting the player in a warm place accomplish the same thing or is the actual flow of current critical? Can someone help me out or point to a good discussion? Thanks in advance.

dana789

Welcome to the AMP3 club Dana! Burn in can be a very sensitive subject on here. There are discussions in the sound science section on this.

So, here is my quick and dirty. Modern amps are on silicon. The silicon is not pure, but doped with imperfections. These imperfections to my understanding can migrate with heat and charge carrying through them, effectively causing channels in the material. Noting you could see, and the electrical changes would be miniscule and undetectable for a digital circuit that is only off/on. My hypothesis is that these changes do affect analog signals. Unfortunately I can not prove anything as I don't have the time, money, or desire to do so, but I believe there are some physical changes going on at the molecular level. Also, other components such as capacitors also burn in, resulting in subtle but noticeable changes to the sound when paired with high resolution equipment.

The counter thought to burn in is your brain adjusts to the sound signature (somehow even if you burn in and don't listen), or you just think there is a change when there really isn't because other people have said there will be changes.

I burn my stuff in!

[tstarn06]

Me too (hope no anti-burn-in lurkers here).

[SACD-Man]

I'm currently testing the new software for the PRO2. More details to follow. The Gain issue seems to be addressed and other software related issues.

Stay Tuned!!
Craig

[average_joe]

Great news!

[acroyear]

Originally Posted by SACD-Man

I'm currently testing the new software for the PRO2. More details to follow. The Gain issue seems to be addressed and other software related issues.

Stay Tuned!!
Craig

Really?? Don't tease us!

[Woody469]

Originally Posted by SACD-Man

I'm currently testing the new software for the PRO2. More details to follow. The Gain issue seems to be addressed and other software related issues.

Stay Tuned!!
Craig

Thats great even though like I said, the volume issue doesn't seem that important to me with the Amp3 Pro2. Now if, like alot of other equipment I have come across, the Amp3 Pro2 needed more volume to sound full, I'd have an issue.
Quite frankly, when I listened to audio as a kid, usually on one of those console record player thingies, we could listen at low volumes but still have extension in the highs as well as the lows. Somewhere along the line, all that changed. It seems with most stuff today, if you want a top to bottom full sound, you have to crank the volume. I mean seriously, even el cheapo rack systems of years passed could give the semblance of involving "full" sound.

IEMs nowadays seem to aggravate me too but thats a whole different story. I feel like if I don't spend a grand or more for those new customs (you know which ones I'm talking about) then I won't get audiophile sound. I posted a few iems I like with the Amp3 Pro2 but my favorite match is NOT with an iem. The Zinos and the Amp3 Pro2 (admittedly I am getting spoiled by the Amp3's "all in one" design. It fits in my top pocket!) were made for each other. Anyone else toying with that combination? I'd like to hear.

As for burn in, I have no clue why or how it works but I have heard the difference (sometimes more, sometimes less) and I will continue to burn my stuff in. Come to think of it, why does freezing (the new "cryo" craze) work? Some of this stuff is snake oil undoubtedly so in the end, I let my ears be the judge. Congratulations to any and all Amp3 owners. You made a good choice. Now if only I could get my hands on that new Studio One..........

[curgimib]

Hi Craig,
please also check, if the new software also solve the problems with
the FLAC Files, that the do hiccups.
Thanks

[acroyear]

Originally Posted by Woody469

Thats great even though like I said, the volume issue doesn't seem that important to me with the Amp3 Pro2. Now if, like alot of other equipment I have come across, the Amp3 Pro2 needed more volume to sound full, I'd have an issue.
Quite frankly, when I listened to audio as a kid, usually on one of those console record player thingies, we could listen at low volumes but still have extension in the highs as well as the lows. Somewhere along the line, all that changed. It seems with most stuff today, if you want a top to bottom full sound, you have to crank the volume. I mean seriously, even el cheapo rack systems of years passed could give the semblance of involving "full" sound.

IEMs nowadays seem to aggravate me too but thats a whole different story. I feel like if I don't spend a grand or more for those new customs (you know which ones I'm talking about) then I won't get audiophile sound. I posted a few iems I like with the Amp3 Pro2 but my favorite match is NOT with an iem. The Zinos and the Amp3 Pro2 (admittedly I am getting spoiled by the Amp3's "all in one" design. It fits in my top pocket!) were made for each other. Anyone else toying with that combination? I'd like to hear.

As for burn in, I have no clue why or how it works but I have heard the difference (sometimes more, sometimes less) and I will continue to burn my stuff in. Come to think of it, why does freezing (the new "cryo" craze) work? Some of this stuff is snake oil undoubtedly so in the end, I let my ears be the judge. Congratulations to any and all Amp3 owners. You made a good choice. Now if only I could get my hands on that new Studio One..........

I think the volume issue pertains to those with higher impedance and less efficient headphones. Pro2 owners have a myriad of preferences for headphones, and raising the volume limit is going to bring more options into the fold.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by dana789

I just received my AMP3 pro2, and have been enjoying it along with the earbuds. My interest in audio dates back to the original transistor radios, through cassette tapes and onto the digital age. Listening to my first portable CD player through a cheap pair of headphones was a revelation I will never forget (Dire Straits, Money for Nothing). The AMP3 represents another significant milestone in my experience.

My question concerns the mechanisms behind burn-in of a solid state device. I apologize in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I did a search and came up with nothing, other than the fact that most sophisticated users seem to agree it's important. I understand how headphones or tubes can burn-in as the mechanical properties of the key elements could change with usage (fatigue, thermal cycling, etc). But what would change in a solid state device? I realize no components really function like our idealized models (v=ir, i = C dv/dt, etc), and I suspect there are probably second-order characteristics that change with usage, heating, etc. I found one posting where someone claims headphone cables need burn in. Really? Does anyone know what the specific effects are? Would putting the player in a warm place accomplish the same thing or is the actual flow of current critical? Can someone help me out or point to a good discussion? Thanks in advance.

dana789

It's complete pseudo-science. All empirical studies suggest no, but many people claim to personally hear a difference (where the theory of burning-in your mind comes from).

If you can't hear a difference, don't do it. It will shorten the life of your equipment. If you can, go for it because it isn't going to be significant for this particular application. Ideally you should do ABX tests to discover this, but of course you would need to be blindfolded and to have a friend (also unaware of which amp was which) to switch the players for the tests, which is beyond most people's devotion to audio (somewhat ironically given the elitism of self-proclaimed 'audiophiles').

About Subjectivism
A nice site, but not much about headphones and A short blurb about burn-in on page 7

I've emailed a few different people from manufacturers to audio engineers to enthusiasts and you never get a straight answer from the people who believe in it, while the people who don't tell you 'there's no reason to believe it exists' and quote a few tests.

[RASeymour]

Craig,

Is the firmware revision going to address the title crawl? Two things: one, the crawl is slow and there's no way to alter the speed. Two, there seems to be a character limit. I often see the song title cut off mid word.

Still having FLAC problems too. Very inconsistent. Some albums have it and some don't.

Otherwise, really enjoying the player.

[Chef]

RADeymour, it's likely that the AMP3 does not have the RAM to play such a demanding format. I recall once trying to play vynal album turned digital that had something like 2600 kb/s flac (compared to the 900-1200 usual) on my iPod5.5, and experiencing horrible skipping (though I could play it on my PC, which obviously has much better RAM than my iPod).

If I were you I would do some detective work on both the file size and the kb/s your files are demanding. If this is the problem there is no update that could make the AMP3 play those files (and the manufacturers are designing it with high-quality mp3s in mind anyway, not bloated lossless tracks). Try playing some classical music on your AMP3, which typically has 500-600 kb/s and see if it skips.

I think the only reason iPod can even play flac files is because they were designed to play video, which already sets them at about 1600 kb/s files.

[Felsham PO]

After reading through several threads on head-fi I decided to get a amp3 pro2.
It has arrived and is plugged in (to me and the charger) as I type. It sounds really clear and spacious to my untrained ear and I am well pleased.
I have a couple of questions that may have been answered previously but I am still not sure about.
I have se530's as my preffered IEM's and it seems that these are one of the worst to have because of their sensitivity and impedance = hiss. They are a bit hissy but will this reduce as the pro2 is burnt in.
Are the REO's a better choice because they are less sensitve and a higher impedance.
Also will the new FW be available as a download?

Many thanks