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05-08-2009, 07:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,248
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What exactly does the blind test tell you about long term listening enjoyment?
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05-08-2009, 07:25 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong
The differences between radioshack cables and the ones I have that were <$150 (possibly <$200, but I don't recall the prices I paid for some of them, and then there are the DIY ones using cheap, but good cables and plugs) make so little difference I wouldn't consider it "worth it". It's not an excuse, I spent some time trying them and spending time listening very carefully, but the level of difference was was tiny, such that the position of the headphones on my head affected the sound significantly more.
I think you can't handle the idea that someone can both be sensible and perceive a difference, because it would mean you'd have to alter your view -- one that is, by your own admission, not from your own experience or reasearch. Absurd indeed. You may as well tell me all about Japan without ever travelling here.
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It had to come sooner or later "You don't have the ear developed enough to hear those subtle differences (That i add are not audible by humans)
So whatever you say, BAT-man aka Currawong 
__________________
When the audio equipment takes priority over the music, the way the music sounds is more important than the sound of the music. Check my profile to see my rig.
Want to know the "truth" behind cables? Go HERE
Finished my search!! No more spending money! The Ergo 2 are keepers! Now to sell what I no longer use.
-- Team Grado-- -- Team Phonak-- -- Team Snake Oil--
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05-08-2009, 07:27 PM
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1000+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez
What exactly does the blind test tell you about long term listening enjoyment?
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Absolutely nothing, you can enjoy an imagined difference just as well as a real one. The blind test only tells you which is which.
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05-08-2009, 07:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeMusic
Absolutely nothing, you can enjoy an imagined difference just as well as a real one. The blind test only tells you which is which.
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The only thing imagined in this thread are all the self proclaimed scientists who speak in absolutes when experience is the only true test there will be. I also am saying all this crap about people being delusional when dealing with cables is also a delusion that people seem to fall back on instead of saying "Im a cheap bastard and I wont spend more than 20 dollars on a cable".
I would also like to point out that people who don't have equipment worthy of a superior cable and or don't have any super nice cables should not be posting in this thread. If you have no experience (Bullseye) then you have nothing to add to the thread.
Deal with your lack of experience before coming here and posting a bunch of sci-fi ********, you scientific types never seem to back up your claims with any concrete science. Even if you did it still would not tell anyone how a cables sounds.
Last edited by olblueyez; 05-08-2009 at 07:36 PM.
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05-08-2009, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeMusic
But the crux is in how you 'test' it. If the test isn't blind then performing it time and time and time again won't make any difference, in fact once you get an erroneous subjective impression then all you're likely to do with continued subjective impressions is solidify it, right or wrong.
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That's an unproven and rather unlikely scenario. Also, if you consider the typical audiophile restlessness and dissatisfaction, you'd rather expect the effect to wear off over time. However, a perceived effect which is reliably there is as good as a real effect. And note that I don't believe in cable sound -- cables don't have to have a sonic characteristic according to my expectations --, I just hear it.
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__________________
McCormack UDP-1 → Corda Symphony → Sennheiser HD 800
McCormack UDP-1 → Bel Canto DAC2 → 500 Ω potentiometer → Sennheiser HD 800
McCormack UDP-1 → Stax SRM-727II → Electrostat 1 / Electrostat 2
Foobar2000 v0.9.4.2 → Corda Opera → Sennheiser HD 800
iAudio 7 → Etymotic ER-4P (mod.) / Phonak Audéo / Sennheiser IE 8 / HD 238 Pro (each with customized EQ)
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Last edited by JaZZ; 05-08-2009 at 07:35 PM.
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05-08-2009, 07:48 PM
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1000+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,440
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Quote:
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The only thing imagined in this thread are all the self proclaimed scientists who speak in absolutes when experience is the only true test there will be.
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If you mean subjective experience then that statement is just as wrong as can be.
Quote:
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That's an unproven and rather unlikely scenario.
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No, it's both likely and easily demonstrated.
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05-08-2009, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeMusic
No, it's both likely and easily demonstrated.
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However you see it...
A bit off topic: Are «believers» happy with their systems?
At least I am. (But it took me a while.)
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__________________
McCormack UDP-1 → Corda Symphony → Sennheiser HD 800
McCormack UDP-1 → Bel Canto DAC2 → 500 Ω potentiometer → Sennheiser HD 800
McCormack UDP-1 → Stax SRM-727II → Electrostat 1 / Electrostat 2
Foobar2000 v0.9.4.2 → Corda Opera → Sennheiser HD 800
iAudio 7 → Etymotic ER-4P (mod.) / Phonak Audéo / Sennheiser IE 8 / HD 238 Pro (each with customized EQ)
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05-08-2009, 11:43 PM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: san jose,CA
Posts: 480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez
I would also like to point out that people who don't have equipment worthy of a superior cable and or don't have any super nice cables should not be posting in this thread. If you have no experience (Bullseye) then you have nothing to add to the thread.
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I thought the topic is are people happy with their equipment. Cable difference has been discussed to death. I don't think we need ant more debate unless someone has new data or new test method to support their claim.
I got a feeling people just like to argue for the fun of it.
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05-09-2009, 01:30 AM
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500+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw
I got a feeling people just like to argue for the fun of it.
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ding ding ding...we have a winna. Give that man a cigar!!
__________________
"The beatings will continue until morale improves!!"
Phones: Koss "Sparkplug", Razer Carcharias, Grado SR60, JVC HA-RX900, Sennheiser HD580, Denon AH-D7000
Sources: PC (Soundblaster Audigy), iPod Shuffle, Denon DVD-2900 SACD player
Amps:Denon AVR-689, Amity VPA2V, Little Dot MKIV SE
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05-09-2009, 02:08 AM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,050
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I think some people like to argue, some people like to share their point of view, and some like to be a captain of a sinking ship? On my buddies AT rig it is hard for me to notice if cables make a difference. Having the L3000's and the matching amp. I can see where anyone can be happy with that rig and not worry about cables.
On my rig with the 336se, It is easy to change the sound with sources,cables, tubes , power conditioning, receptacles, IEC's, and fuses. Always tweeking the sound one way or another.
__________________
"DBT is for suckers"
BIG POPPA
Feedback BIG POPPA
Home Rig:
Arcam CD73, WOO 3+ very upgraded, Senn HD580 with Custom Kimber Kable Headphone cable and DIY interconnects, MS-1's recable with Silver plated copper, Custom power cables,Custom IC's and Audio grade fuses ALO Wood Ipod Dock
Portable:
5G ipod or CD player, Red Tomahawk or Portiphile, Koss Ksc-75's recabled by Apuresound with a 75 Ohm resistor, Livewires T1, Headroom 4" mini to mini, ALO Bling Bling dock
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05-09-2009, 10:22 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw
I thought the topic is are people happy with their equipment. Cable difference has been discussed to death. I don't think we need ant more debate unless someone has new data or new test method to support their claim.
I got a feeling people just like to argue for the fun of it.
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How about a DBT with actual blind people. I swear to you they will pick the correct differences everytime.
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05-09-2009, 11:39 AM
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Headphoneus Supremus 10*2kaiHead-Fi's Most Prolific Poster |
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 30,081
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I bet most of them are!
That said, being happy don't mean that they are not on the look-out for higher amount of sound quality. 
__________________
:: Feedback ::
MacBook Pro → Isabellina → Signature 30.2 / β22 → K1000
MacBook Pro → Isabellina → Signature 30.2 / β22 → SRD-7 Pro → SR-007BL
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05-09-2009, 01:06 PM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
'...' filters have the same frequency response, they sound different and show the difference consistently. Despite the fact that technically speaking the only difference is in the characteristic of the filter ringing, which is in the ultrasonic range and therefore shouldn't matter. '...'
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What, no comment? Scientists - any???
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05-09-2009, 02:34 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharma
What, no comment? Scientists - any???
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Placebo effect, maybe?
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__________________
McCormack UDP-1 → Corda Symphony → Sennheiser HD 800
McCormack UDP-1 → Bel Canto DAC2 → 500 Ω potentiometer → Sennheiser HD 800
McCormack UDP-1 → Stax SRM-727II → Electrostat 1 / Electrostat 2
Foobar2000 v0.9.4.2 → Corda Opera → Sennheiser HD 800
iAudio 7 → Etymotic ER-4P (mod.) / Phonak Audéo / Sennheiser IE 8 / HD 238 Pro (each with customized EQ)
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05-09-2009, 03:18 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fukuoka, Japan (was Australia)
Posts: 3,628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye
It had to come sooner or later "You don't have the ear developed enough to hear those subtle differences (That i add are not audible by humans)
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I didn't say that, I said you don't have experience with high-end gear to make judgement.
Since you bring it up though, have you ever seen a piano tuner at work? They only check the frequency of the first note electronically, and do the rest by ear (at least the ones I've seen). As well, quite a few music teachers I've known are "pitch perfect" in that they can consistently sing notes at the correct frequency the music requires without first having to check themselves against an instrument.
But if you're happy with your system, you can disregard all this, of course. 
__________________
MacBook Pro → Audio-gd Reference 3+1 → Phoenix → Sennheiser HD-800, Grado HF-2, Symphones Magnums or Parasound Zamp → Paradigm Titans + Van Den Hul or DIY cabling.
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