TO TWEAK OR NOT TO TWEAK THE STAX 007A? THAT IS THE QUESTION

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by Elephas

I'm envious.

Hey, I sold an Ultrasone Proline 2500 once.

How could you sell somebody something as awful as Ultrasones? This would be much more appropriate...

[edstrelow]

Originally Posted by leberserkfury

I like the stock sound just fine. Wouldn't mess with it...

Originally Posted by Elephas

I also like the stock Mk2. I don't agree with spritzer that "something is very wrong" with it. If the Mk1 and Mk2 sound very similar to each other, how can the Mk2 be very wrong?

If the Mk2 sounds very wrong, I would hate to imagine what spritzer thinks of the Airbow SR-SC1, SR-Omega, 4070, Lambda Pro, HE90, HE60, R10, Qualia, K1000, K701, HD650, L3000, W5000, AD2000, PS-1, HP-2 ... whew, you get the point... all of which sound more different from the O2Mk1 than the O2Mk2.

I think that people should experiment with whatever modifications they want to do.

I would be willing to try some of the mods, but I'm not as brave or capable as some people.

I think part of the issue is the tonal characteristic of the listener's own system. If you have and like the 007, which as I understand it has a dark tonality, it is likely that you have a somewhat bright underlying sound signature in your set-up. Possibly due to IC's, amps or whatever.

When you move onto, what to my ear seems the more neutral 007A sound with a slight mid treble peak, ithe new phone will sound bright, possibly annoyingly so.

As I listen to the 007A with the Spritzer spring mod, I hear a signficant darkening of the sound and reduction in the mid treble peak. I haven't fully decided if I prefer it to the original sound or not but it is ceratinly a more succesful mod to my ear than the Blutac mod.

Now that DVSE has clarified the difference between the 007 and 007A in how the spring is inserted, it is probably worth checking that out too.

[edstrelow]

Originally Posted by dvse

Here is a picture from the Stax earpad box - we can see that indeed SR-007A pads are meant to be mounted differently, likely to reduce 'fart' by making it impossible to achieve a good seal (and this also explains the smaller spring).


By the way, I'm definitely with spritzer on the 007A vs 007 issue - the very qualities that make the headphone stand out are tampered with for no apparent reason.

I see that AudiocubesII sells different replacement pads for the 007 and 007A although it gives no pictures. Are the pads signficantly different and is this, plus the spring difference part of the reason for the difference in sound of these two units?

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by edstrelow

I see that AudiocubesII sells different replacement pads for the 007 and 007A although it gives no pictures. Are the pads signficantly different and is this, plus the spring difference part of the reason for the difference in sound of these two units?

The pads are rather different, both the materials used (including the foam) and the construction. The new pads are a much looser fit so if you thought installing them was hard, you have to try the Mk1 pads... They are also stiffer and slightly larger on the inside, more similar to the shape of the SR-Ω pads. I tried to get Mk1 black pads to test on the Mk2/A but Stax in Japan didn't want to sell them to me. Damn distributor BS...

[catscratch]

Originally Posted by Elephas

Anytime there's a change some people like it and some people don't. I like both Mk1 and Mk2. I don't think the Mk2 is a messed up version of the Mk1. I understand that people who like the Mk1 very much might be upset by its discontinuation and the different-sounding Mk2.

But I think that being so critical of the differences between the Mk1 and Mk2 is an exaggerated perspective. If the Mk2, which sounds the most like the Mk1 than any other headphone, is so "simply unusable" and horrible, how can you listen to anything other than the Mk1?

Actually, maybe being so critical that only the Mk1 will do is good thing for the wallet: a one headphone collection.

That's not for me, though. I like listening to many different headphones and enjoying how they all sound different with a variety of music.

I can tell you exactly why I don't like the Mk2 and like the Mk1. It's the midrange coloration. There are a few things for me which are outright unacceptable in a headphone, and the main one is a certain midrange coloration which I've found on a lot of headphones - some Audio-Technicas, the SR-404, and the A250, just to name a few. There, the upper midrange is peaky, which gives instruments a colder, thinner, more nasal tonality and makes things sound brittle and dry, or electric and artificial. It was a shame to see that coloration transplanted into the O2, albeit to a lesser degree, because the Mk1's ultra-realistic midrange tone was its main attraction. The only midrange coloration I tolerate is an emphasis in the lower mids, like the HE90 or K340, which, when coupled with a slight emphasis in the upper highs, creates a sparkly yet warm sound. That's a very popular and very euphonic coloration, very tube-like, but the O2 Mk1 doesn't have it either, and people looking for it specifically will be disappointed.

That, together with a relative lack of deep bass, which a lot of my music has, makes the O2 Mk2 unusable for me.

If that doesn't bother you, then by all means go ahead.

Also, I hate to see what I recognize as a definite step backwards in sound quality from a company that has no excuse for such sloppy design standards. There are a lot of cheaper headphones that I'd prefer over the O2 Mk2 starting with a balanced HD650, and Stax really has no right IMO to charge that kind of a price tag for nothing short of the original O2 Mk1's level of performance. I was going to say "perfection" but of course nothing, not even the O2 Mk1 or the HE90, is perfect. When you couple that with amps that are thoroughly not worth their money (new) you can see why I'm pretty much down on the entire current Stax lineup (the little 003 excluded).

Here's to hoping that the Jade will motivate them, but HEaudio will have to sell a lot more than 10 pairs a month for that to happen. We're not even a drop in the bucket when you compare what we buy to Stax's global sales.

[Edit: and before people even start - I owned both of these headphones at the same time and have done extensive comparisons side by side. From what I've read, the vast majority of people that have owned both and have done similar comparisons have preferred the Mk1.]

[2deadeyes]

Originally Posted by dvse

Here is a picture from the Stax earpad box - we can see that indeed SR-007A pads are meant to be mounted differently, likely to reduce 'fart' by making it impossible to achieve a good seal (and this also explains the smaller spring).


By the way, I'm definitely with spritzer on the 007A vs 007 issue - the very qualities that make the headphone stand out are tampered with for no apparent reason.

Thank you for this post - I've just been made aware that I installed the replacement pads on my MK1 incorrectly.

[edstrelow]

Originally Posted by spritzer

The pads are rather different, both the materials used (including the foam) and the construction. The new pads are a much looser fit so if you thought installing them was hard, you have to try the Mk1 pads... They are also stiffer and slightly larger on the inside, more similar to the shape of the SR-Ω pads. I tried to get Mk1 black pads to test on the Mk2/A but Stax in Japan didn't want to sell them to me. Damn distributor BS...

Apparently Audiiocubes 2 has Mk1 pads, but I don't know their colour.

[dvse]

Originally Posted by spritzer

Where the hell did you dig that one up?? Great find and clearly shows that the Stax engineers have simply lost their minds...

It's from the cardboard box that SR-007A replacement pads come in - looks like Stax, true to their tradition, are discontinuing the SR-007 version.

[Elephas]

Originally Posted by catscratch

That, together with a relative lack of deep bass, which a lot of my music has, makes the O2 Mk2 unusable for me.

If that doesn't bother you, then by all means go ahead.

The Mk2's midrange doesn't bother me. It is more forward than the Mk1's, but I don't think the difference is large. I use other headphones which are more different from the Mk1, and their midranges don't bother me either. I'm adaptable.

Comparing the Mk2 and Mk1 with some tracks such as Massive Attack - Angel and the deep organ in Mattias Wager - Air (Opus3 30th Anniv.), both have roughly equivalent deep bass. The Mk2 has more mid-bass impact. Using the RealTraps test tones, the Mk1 has slightly more bass quantity at 20-29 Hz but the difference isn't large.

Lack of deep bass in any headphone would bother me, but I'm not experiencing it with the Mk2.

[majkel]

Originally Posted by spritzer

This isn't a mod in that way as my goal was to simply restore the phones to the way they should have sounded in the first place. Most of those that that have compared the Mk1 and Mk2 share my point of view that something is very wrong and needs to be fixed. You only have to look at the market for used Mk1's to see they last hours at best. The German distributor has also demanded changes to the Mk2 as they weren't happy either.

In the end it all boils down to experience and having a point of reference. If you have never heard a Mk1 then how would you know if something was off? If you've only heard the SR-Omega then how could you know that the bass is a bit loose and they don't perform well at high volume? Both these phones are excellent but without a long term comparison to the Mk1 it is impossible to to know for sure. I've owned a lot of headphones and the SR-007 mk1 has always remained the gold standard against which everything is measured.

I spent quite a while with the Accuphase DP800/DC801 - SRM-727A - Omega 2 MkI combo, so I have an opinion. If your mod reverts the MkII to MkI then it's... OK. There is one "feature" of the Omega II MkI sound signature that I not necessarily would like to be regained in the MkII. It's hard to decribe, kind of artificial sound continuity, like silky fabric being the surface. I didn't notice it on the MkII's but I know that it's something that lots of people particularily care for, i.e. the Accuphase system owner. So, if somebody is a neutrality geek, he should consider what is more important. If it would be me, well... I choose the MkI's.

[krmathis]

Originally Posted by edstrelow

Apparently Audiiocubes 2 has Mk1 pads, but I don't know their colour.

The website state "brown":
Audio Cubes II - Stax Replacement Leather Pads for SR-007 Omega II Earspeakers

I ordered from them last year, when their website stated "black" and received brown ones. After I complained and got a partial refund they corrected the website.

[spritzer]

What I really like about the SR-007 Mk1 isn't the quantity of bass or the depth (which it has plenty of) but how it is always proportional to the music in the right system. While I'm typing this Foobar is on shuffle and pulling up songs from many genres and all ages which clearly highlights the bass capabilities. It's easy to make a headphone with massive bass but controlling all that bass is a very tough proposition and that's where the Mk2/A failed. The same can be said about the He90 but in a very different way since it's bass is very dynamic like and omnipresent. The Mk2/A can go deep but that damn bump is always in the way, adding a texture to everything. The Mk1 cam have virtually no bass at all if that is called for or rumble like a badly setup subwoofer if that's what's in the cards. A lot of this is dependent on the amp driving the phones since the bass sucks up a lot of power but a 717 more then hints at what the BH can do and which later, more advanced versions of the BH are sure to add onto.

Originally Posted by edstrelow

Apparently Audiiocubes 2 has Mk1 pads, but I don't know their colour.

When I ordered from them a few years ago they were brown and that makes sense since Stax only sells the brown pads in Japan.

Originally Posted by dvse

It's from the cardboard box that SR-007A replacement pads come in - looks like Stax, true to their tradition, are discontinuing the SR-007 version.

Makes sense since the Mk1 pads are probably more expensive to make but it still pisses me off. There are a few thousand Mk1's out there and the wast majority are brown. I wonder if I should stock up again... do you think 4 sets of Mk1 pads are enough?

Originally Posted by majkel

I spent quite a while with the Accuphase DP800/DC801 - SRM-727A - Omega 2 MkI combo, so I have an opinion. If your mod reverts the MkII to MkI then it's... OK. There is one "feature" of the Omega II MkI sound signature that I not necessarily would like to be regained in the MkII. It's hard to decribe, kind of artificial sound continuity, like silky fabric being the surface. I didn't notice it on the MkII's but I know that it's something that lots of people particularily care for, i.e. the Accuphase system owner. So, if somebody is a neutrality geek, he should consider what is more important. If it would be me, well... I choose the MkI's.

The mod makes the Mk2 sound like the Mk1 but doesn't clone the sound. There is only so much that one can do without tackling the drivers directly since Stax changed them in some way. My goal was to eliminate the midrange issues and bring back the relaxed bass of the Mk1 and that was successful. I've also managed to retain most of the same strengths in my SR-Ω/007 hybrid phone (uses SR-007 Mk1 drivers) which sounded very poor when I bought them since Stax didn't think the conversion through. That being said the mod will never suit everybody as the prefer a different presentation. You should definitely try the Mk1 on something besides a 727 since it is a rather poor compared to the 717 or a behemoth like the Blue Hawaii.

[edstrelow]

Spritzer's spring mod to the 007A is sounding pretty good to me. Of course this is the spring mod with the large loop of the spring inside the leather ring. As is noted above, the 007 has the loop outside of the leather. I suppose like everything else with these phones it might change the sound yet again and I will probably check it out at some point.

Its somewhat of a nuisance getting the pleather sides of the pads under the black metal plate. I use either a flat screwdriver or blunt knife to push it in place and its not too difficult. I am somewhat worried about damaging the pleather though from too many such insertions.

The mod, as currently carried out stops the pads from rotating as freely as before. That is a good thing because they were very loose and I was always adjusting them. Now they stay where I want them.

Soundwise, I feel I am hearing more deep bass and less of the upper mid/lower treble peak, although overall the phones are darker than without the mod. The pads seem to sound best with the inner flat section pointing down about 45 degrees. I.e. the inside of the pads look like the letter D. The flat side of the D points about 45 degrees down from vertical.

[Elephas]

Originally Posted by spritzer

The Mk2/A can go deep but that damn bump is always in the way, adding a texture to everything.

A-ha! Gotcha!

So the Mk2 does go deep. So it has deep bass, but you think the greater mid-bass impact gets in the way.

I could agree, the Mk2's mid-bass does seem a bit over-emphasized and can be too dominant. Especially when using the ES-1, which has better dynamics and a brighter and more open sound than the Aristaeus.

I removed one earpad from the Mk2 today to see how difficult it was to install, and I regretted doing it. It took me more than a half hour of struggling to reinstall the earpad. I used some plastic twist ties to push in and hold in the material that wraps into the housing.

[HeadphoneAddict]

It helps to use a piece of tape to hold the starting point of the pad skirt where it is pushed into the groove in the housing, then just work your way around. When you get to the part that it under the headband, you have to remove the tape to rotate the pad 1-2" and finish the job.