The Stax thread (New)

[dvse]

Originally Posted by ericj

Neither method is intrinsically superior.

Except one is vastly more practical and can account for individual physiology.

Originally Posted by ericj

There's some research recently into how the shape of the outer ear affects some sounds. Are we going to get HRTF filters customized to our personal geometries or something? I doubt it.

Absolutely we will - there is a good chance a self-assessed calibration technique is possible where no direct measurements are needed or ear model can be built up from photographs etc.

[edstrelow]

Originally Posted by ericj

You know, HRTF is such a cool sounding acronym that hardly anybody remembers that it means "Head-Related Transfer Function".

The difference between making binaural recordings and using an additive HRTF (whether it's digital or analog) is that in the case of the binaural recording, the HRTF is attempted through physical means of an artificial head.

Neither method is intrinsically superior.

There's some research recently into how the shape of the outer ear affects some sounds. Are we going to get HRTF filters customized to our personal geometries or something? I doubt it.

A binaural recording, especially if it is made with your own head will be an accurate recording of the real world sounds, from the perspective of you as the specific listener. There is no way some sort of after-the-fact or after-the-recording technique such as HRTF is going to be as accurate for any specific listener. HRTF type of processing is an approximation :

Head-related transfer function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article refers to measurements being made at 15 or 30 degree lateral changes in the location of sound sources which doesn't sound too precise to me.

As a further problem, the source material to which an HRTF processing would be applied, unless is uses microphones placed at ear -type separations has already lost or screwed up critical inter-aural time differences which are important natural stimuli to auditory dierction perception. About the only reliable stereo cue or stimulus which commercial recordings retain is inter-aural amplitude differences. An after-the-fact technique would have nothing to use to apply its processing tricks.

So i would have to say that binaural recording is inherently superior to any after-the-fact processing system, especially if you provide the head for the recording. On the other hand I have been pretty happy with some type of after-the-fact type of processing such as Dolby Headphone, at least for movies.

That said I don't see a much of a future for either for regular recording. Ifyou want a more realisitic headphone experience you need phones like the Stax Sigma or AKG K1000, which move the sound source ahead and away from the ear and thus let the sound flow past the ear in a natural manner rather than blasting it down the ear canal as virtually all other phones do.

I would have said a more speaker-like presentation except that is not actually true since phones avoid the phantom channel artifacts that speakers inevitable cause because speakers cause the right channel to go to both the right and left ear (thus making a phantom channel) and vice versa.

[edstrelow]

Originally Posted by spritzer

Nope, the Mk1 is more neutral to my ears but the Mk2/A is a close second and I'm sure that many would prefer the more forward nature.

The deal beaker for me about the O2A or Mk2 was the loss of deep bass. Do your mods bring it back?

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by edstrelow

The deal beaker for me about the O2A or Mk2 was the loss of deep bass. Do your mods bring it back?

Plug the ports and you've got the same bass performance of the Mk1. That was the easy bit, the midrange "honk" was tougher to beat but can be done by bending the springs inside the pads.

[dvse]

Originally Posted by edstrelow

As a further problem, the source material to which an HRTF processing would be applied, unless is uses microphones placed at ear -type separations has already lost or screwed up critical inter-aural time differences which are important natural stimuli to auditory dierction perception. About the only reliable stereo cue or stimulus which commercial recordings retain is inter-aural amplitude differences. An after-the-fact technique would have nothin to use ot apply its processing tricks.

What you would do is emulate listening to either a stereo or a surround speaker system. In other cases, like computer games, complete spatial model of sound sources is available.

[ericj]

Originally Posted by dvse

Absolutely we will - there is a good chance a self-assessed calibration technique is possible where no direct measurements are needed or ear model can be built up from photographs etc.

The technology may be available, but we're dealing with a music industry that can't be convinced to use slightly less dynamic range compression so that maybe the audio won't be clipping continuously on the original media.

So i think it won't make much of an impact.

[dvse]

Originally Posted by ericj

The technology may be available, but we're dealing with a music industry that can't be convinced to use slightly less dynamic range compression so that maybe the audio won't be clipping continuously on the original media.

So i think it won't make much of an impact.

Indeed, but luckily music industry needn't be involved... The level of sophistication isn't really all that different from what's required to develop compression and there are many examples of successful internet collaborations with regular forum users doing testing etc.

[ericj]

you'll have to excuse me for not being overly excited about the prospect of 3d-ifying poorly recorded / poorly mastered music.

[dvse]

At least it won't make it any worse! I think a much more interesting application would be games.

[edstrelow]

Originally Posted by dvse

What you would do is emulate listening to either a stereo or a surround speaker system. In other cases, like computer games, complete spatial model of sound sources is available.

"emulate listening," complete spatial model" What? This is evasive wording and hype. You are just talking about creating some synthetic spatial perception, not accurately recreating the original soundfield. Dolby headphone does this adequately for movies but I don't like it for music with headphones.

I do use a Yamaha digital surround sound system for speakers. However its headphone hook-up is not very interesting.

I think most people find good conventional music stereo to be so involving that it will be tough sell to get them to do much to it especially since 3-D systems always end up compromising some other aspect of sonic fidelity. Movies and games, ok, but there the emphasis is something other than music.

[cosmopragma]

Originally Posted by edstrelow

"emulate listening," complete spatial model" What? This is evasive wording and hype. You are just talking about creating some synthetic spatial perception, not accurately recreating the original soundfield. Dolby headphone does this adequately for movies but I don't like it for music with headphones.

I do use a Yamaha digital surround sound system for speakers. However its headphone hook-up is not very interesting.

I think most people find good conventional music stereo to be so involving that it will be tough sell to get them to do much to it especially since 3-D systems always end up compromising some other aspect of sonic fidelity. Movies and games, ok, but there the emphasis is something other than music.

I guess you missed the enthusiastic reports about the Smyth Virtual Surround system with head tracking that has been auditioned by experienced head-fi'ers at an U.S. head-fi meet lately.
Failed attempts in the past (at least as stereo music is concerned) don't mean there is no way.
I haven't yet the opportunity to audition the Smyth system but I did audition a somewhat similar system by EMT Studiotechnik GmbH last year at a german meet, and it was quite impressing and far better than simple crap like Dolby Headphone.The EMT systems is aimed at the studio market though and at ~$20000 too expensive for me.The Smyth system is way more affordable.

[ericj]

Originally Posted by spritzer

This should be easy to fix. The metal plate slides into place with the baffle out of the way and secures the cable. Lift up the four corners of the earpads and remove the screws. Pull the baffle out and align the metal plate and cable just like on the other earcup and push into place.

Thanks. Kinda odd how it doesn't really lock into place until the baffle is in place, but easy enough to sort out.

Looks like a previous owner tried to force it in without taking the baffle off and mangled the chunk that goes on the inside a bit - and scraped up the metal, but only in the area covered by the strain relief. Can't tell it's scratched when it's assembled.

Seems to work ok. If it becomes a problem I'll slather the inner bits with gray silicone RTV before the next reassembly, or something.

Better question though. On that same side the grille is dented in at the bottom and looks like it's touching the dust cover in an area of about a square centimeter.

Does not appear to affect sound at all. If the foam were intact i'd have never known it was there. But at some point it's going to drive me nuts strictly because it's not mechanically perfect.

So, it would be best if i knew how to safely remove the driver from the baffle before that day comes. Right now I'm envisioning sliding the edge of a thin, flat-edged blade under the side of the driver and gently levering it up, but i intend to get more knowledge on the subject before attacking it.

Sticking it back down isn't a problem - i have some high grade double-sided tape here that i can easily cut a new oval out of. Made in germany of nonwoven fabric and the stuff has a very good bond when the surfaces are properly prepped.

[treebug]

Hi folks. I'm new to electrostatic's (currently own the Grado GS1000's) and thinking about purchasing the SRM-007tII system. How important is a cd player with XLR balanced connections for use with the Stax? Any opinions on this system gratefully received!

[naamanf]

Not very IMHO. I switched back and forth between the SE and balanced inputs on the 007Ta when I was using it and couldn't hear a difference. Source was a Opus DAC.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by ericj

Thanks. Kinda odd how it doesn't really lock into place until the baffle is in place, but easy enough to sort out.

Looks like a previous owner tried to force it in without taking the baffle off and mangled the chunk that goes on the inside a bit - and scraped up the metal, but only in the area covered by the strain relief. Can't tell it's scratched when it's assembled.

Seems to work ok. If it becomes a problem I'll slather the inner bits with gray silicone RTV before the next reassembly, or something.

Better question though. On that same side the grille is dented in at the bottom and looks like it's touching the dust cover in an area of about a square centimeter.

Does not appear to affect sound at all. If the foam were intact i'd have never known it was there. But at some point it's going to drive me nuts strictly because it's not mechanically perfect.

So, it would be best if i knew how to safely remove the driver from the baffle before that day comes. Right now I'm envisioning sliding the edge of a thin, flat-edged blade under the side of the driver and gently levering it up, but i intend to get more knowledge on the subject before attacking it.

Sticking it back down isn't a problem - i have some high grade double-sided tape here that i can easily cut a new oval out of. Made in germany of nonwoven fabric and the stuff has a very good bond when the surfaces are properly prepped.

The stupidity of former owners knows no bounds... Where is that facepalm smiley when you need it...

If you don't get a shock from the protection grill then I wouldn't worry about it. They are very often pushed in like that on the vintage phones and I've only had a problem once but the driver had other issues as well. If you choose to fix it then getting the driver off the baffle is only the beginning and not that hard to do with a razor blade. The grill is part of the driver structure which is all glued together so you would have to use a razor blade to split up the driver, fix the dent and clean up all glue residue and then glue it back together. That's excessive even for me but should you be crazy enough take great care with the stator connectors and use some urethane based glue as Stax originally did. It takes longer to cure but that will give you time to align the grill properly and coat the side of the driver with some glue.

If I were you then I'd just buy some new pads and forget about it...