Discussion Of What Is "High End"

[JadeEast]

It seems to me that the idea of "high-end" is centered around the aim for zero compromise in design, materials and construction, regardless of cost.

[zotjen]

IMHO, I'll always associate high-end with high cost. Otherwise, it will get too confusing on where stuff should be posted. For example, just because some people think a PlayStation 1 sounds like a high end player doesn't mean it should be posted here. If I was interested in spending big bucks on a CDP, I wouldn't want to read about a PS1. Now, if you included a PS1 as part of a high-priced set up (cans, amps, interconnects, etc.) and then discussed your set up as a whole, that might be another story. As with everything, I think a lot of what ends up in this category is going to be subjective.

[883dave]

High end is the next piece of gear that is one or many steps above what you have at present

[Cool_Torpedo]

Originally Posted by 883dave

High end is the next piece of gear that is one or many steps above what you have at present

Hehehe, nope, that's higher expectations end

Rgrds

[Happy Camper]

This might be high dollar by nature but you don't have to wear a tie to get in and learn. Besides, how is that budding grad. student, self made business professional, retiree going to know what to get next if they don't have a place to know what constitutes the Bee's Knees?

And for us low trodden wantabee's, seeing some of the product discussed in a yard sale that we can afford will help us find a nut.

Don't pretend there is no gear above your budget. Be aware of what's possible.

[krmathis]

Originally Posted by 883dave

High end is the next piece of gear that is one or many steps above what you have at present

Meaning that none (not a single one) of us currently own high end gear? Oh well, then we better start doing some damage to our wallets...

[digger945]

Originally Posted by Happy Camper

This might be high dollar by nature but you don't have to wear a tie to get in and learn. Besides, how is that budding grad. student, self made business professional, retiree going to know what to get next if they don't have a place to know what constitutes the Bee's Knees?

And for us low trodden wantabee's, seeing some of the product discussed in a yard sale that we can afford will help us find a nut.

Don't pretend there is no gear above your budget. Be aware of what's possible.

Dude, your growin on me like a fungus. That's exactly what I was gonna say.
Are you like practicing to be a political candidate or something?
Thanx
EDIT: The part about the fungus is a compliment, and is intended as such. The part about the political candidate is not intended as a put down, and should not be considered as such. All rights reserved, only at participating stores....

[pcf]

Originally Posted by jude

Like you, Paul, lately I listen to my iPod-fronted portable rig more than my desktop rigs, due only to my current lifestyle. The purpose of this forum isn't to try to insult or invalidate anyone not interested in the high end gear (or those who find it unimportant), but primarily to facilitate an easy place to find discussions for those who are interested in it (like me).

Though some would disagree with me, there are circumstances in which I might bring up an iPod in this forum--for example, an iPod sitting in a Wadia iTransport digitally feeding a Wadia 780i (acting as a DAC) would be something I'd personally bring up in here.

Hi Jude,

Actually I should rephrase that-
What I tried to say was that the music is more important than the gears we use. I find myself listening to more music than ever because of things iike ipod and computer audio. I used to spend a lot of time swapping cables and amps, or I would buy the same album in different formats just to test out the equipments. It was fun but I was listening to my stereo equipments most of the time.
Going back to the topic of highend- It is much cheaper to get good sound these days.The Wadia iTransport you mentioned is a good example. It is relatively inexpensive and can be considered highend if it is fed to a good DAC.
I have ordered one and still waiting for the delivery.
Love this forum. Keep up the good work!

-Paul

[Happy Camper]

With all the mindless drivel that comes through a public forum, I think it was always the intent of this site to adhere to the purist and highest level the hobby has to offer. That Jude has turned the rudder back on course is a satisfying and long anticipated correction.

I use my ipod more than my home rig because of lifestyle. And if there is something out there that will let me enjoy my music more in the portable arena, I want to know about that too. But you don't go to the car to listen to your new CD/LP. You pull out the "what do ya think of this boys" system and feel giddy at the knowledge that it's yours.

[chesebert]

high-end is equipment is when money is not a factor or a small factor in the design and execution of the final product; statement products from some companies should give you some idea.

[chesebert]

Originally Posted by zotjen

IMHO, I'll always associate high-end with high cost. Otherwise, it will get too confusing on where stuff should be posted. For example, just because some people think a PlayStation 1 sounds like a high end player doesn't mean it should be posted here. If I was interested in spending big bucks on a CDP, I wouldn't want to read about a PS1. Now, if you included a PS1 as part of a high-priced set up (cans, amps, interconnects, etc.) and then discussed your set up as a whole, that might be another story. As with everything, I think a lot of what ends up in this category is going to be subjective.

PS1 by itself sucks pretty bad, according to my impression a year ago; with the right peripheral equipments (I have sunk $1500 in power conditioning, cable, and tweaks) and in the right system PS1 is competitive with Hi-End CDP.

[juniperlater]

Originally Posted by chesebert

PS1 by itself sucks pretty bad, according to my impression a year ago; with the right peripheral equipments (I have sunk $1500 in power conditioning, cable, and tweaks) and in the right system PS1 is competitive with Hi-End CDP.

Oh man. I thought you were talking about the Grados at first. I about spit out my drink.

[Spareribs]

I think it's safe to estimate $12,000 for a high end headphone digital based rig. As long as you know what sonic properties you like (For example, bass or preferred big sound space, tubes or solid state, etc..) Within this budget, you can be pretty much guaranteed to get a refined version of your sonic visionary dream rig:

Breaking it down to this approximation, give or take:

$5000 for a great amp
$5000 for a great CD player

$2000 for your ideal headphone
_________________________________

Total: $12,000

Add a few more thousand dollars for a super turntable too, so maybe $15,000-$18,000 total including vinyl high end.

It is a lot of money but in my opinion, it's a worth while investment if you only do this once in your life, which is what I plan to do. I think I can afford it as long as I don't pursue buying any kind of luxury car. And I don't mind driving a modest vehicle. After this, I will move on to another hobby like traveling, home theater, speakers, etc...

[fordgtlover]

Given that the purpose of a high end system is to reproduce music with the fewest compromises, rather than define exactly what gear is high end, it might be easier to put some constraints around what isn't. That is to say, perhaps a principle approach rather than a $ or a subjective assessment approach

For example:
Principle 1
The primary purpose of the gear is to reproduce quality audio.
This immediately would exclude gaming headphones, and playstations (their primary purpose is to play games).

Principle 2
Portable gear is not High-end.
This might be contentious, but I'll throw it in anyway.

Principle 3
Value for money is not the primary purchasing or evaluation consideration.
High-end audio is not all about the best bang-for-buck. It is about the purist pursuit of the best audio reproduction - to your ears, and to your budget.

Principle 4
There are no small improvements that are not worth chasing.
High-end audio is about chasing those final improvements. Cable discussions, DBT and proving that a tweak is scientifically valid is NOT part of high-end audio.

Principle 5
Skeptics need not apply.
If you are skeptical of the worth, value or benefit of any equipment, tweak or improvement - you are probably too focussed on the value for money equation; that is not high-end audio.

Principle 6
High-end audio does not need to subject itself to DBT.
This would be akin to arguing that the owner of a Ferrari should prove that his car is better than your VW beetle.

Principle 7
High-end audio is about what you want rather than what you need.
If you can't understand why anyone would buy a $1 Million dollar car or a $25,000 watch, then you probably won't understand high-end audio either.

Principle 8
High-end audio can include DIY.
Whether it be cables, DACs or Amps (even headphones), there are many DIYers whose primary goal is the pursuit of the best quality audio. Just because a product has a brand name doesn't make it any better - remember, the focus is on the ability to reproduce the best quality audio not how fancy it looks.

Principle 9
High-end audio can include older and used equipment.
Just because something is old doesn't exclude it from being high end. Older equipment offers terrific opportunities for high-end audio at decent prices. Used high-end equipment is still high end equipment - think classic cars.

This my 2 cents worth. These are not rules to be applied strictly- but more to shape thinking.

This group should not be elitist, but it should allow free discussion about the pursuit of the best quality audio - including questions from newbies (but please, not the 'High end amp for $300 questions').

Newbies should only come armed with sensible questions or views, that have actually been researched.

[ast]

This thread definitely belongs to High End forum:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/lis...ead-fi-332867/



even the thread title says it!

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