Discussion Of What Is "High End"

[progo]

Well, the forum description does have the words "price no object" or something. Perhaps we'll be saved from such askers.

Edit: no, it was a bit more mysterious.

[Nomad]

It is going to be impossible to mark a clear line dividing high-end and no-high-end staff. But such "precision" is not the really the point.

As long as we get out of the way most threads titled "Headphone with best soundstage" only to find out on the 6th post that the OP meant in a budget of $30 (If so, put it in the title!), or gaming headphones, fashion phones, etc etc... it would be a great starting point.

Sound-Quality and Price-no-object would be quite good criteria. And when I'm talking about Price-no-object I'm not talking about price "per se". You might end liking your HD650 on your SDS-XLR more than the Qualias, no matter if you can perfectly afford the Qualias. The point here is that you chose the Hd650 because of synergy/sound/taste/whatever, but not because of budget constrains.

Great new forum. Cheers,

[digger945]

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer

I'm sure da mods will have plenty of fun with people whining about what is and isn't "high end." Is it the price? The sound? The look? A combination thereof? The mere idea of segregating off a "high-end only" area is playing with fire.

A lot of things are purified by fire. I will be reading a lot on this forum. Price? There was a time when I thought I would never own a Senn HD280, and look at me now. Because of your post here, now I have something I didn't have yesterday. Infected Mushrooms. Thanks for the link in your sig, I like.
For people who love and are inspired by music, this could be a great adventure. I never thought in my wildest dreams that it would be possible to listen to something so beautiful and moving that it would literally bring me to tears, and what I own would be considered by some to be "junk".
I think this forum will ,at the least, be a good read.
Scott

[tyrion]

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer

I'm sure da mods will have plenty of fun with people whining about what is and isn't "high end." Is it the price? The sound? The look? A combination thereof? The mere idea of segregating off a "high-end only" area is playing with fire.

You mean, kind of like this post?

I'm not sure you can have a definitive definition although someone may try. People have to use judgment. Instead of whining, hopefully people will try to make it work. If unsure, don't start a thread, just participate in the ones that are there now or will be posted in the future. There will very little tolerance for whining.

[ClieOS]

'High end' is that one thing listed on another person's head-fi profile that makes you hope that you are married to that person.

'High end' is the obsession to own, to hold, to love, and to cherish that piece of gear which you believe that will actually give some meaning to your life... in the form of sound wave.

[juniperlater]

Unfortunately, high end audio comes at great cost. I would consider the one thing in my system that is high end to be my cd player, but even that was only $1200 msrp. I typically consider the cutoff to be $1k for a turntable, $2k for a cd player, $1k for a DAC, etc.

Things I consider high end that don't come with a $1k+ pricetag

- Nakamichi Dragon Cassette deck
- Linn LP12
- Pioneer PD-91, 93, etc.

But all of those are sources and used at that.

What about headphones, what are some examples? The k701 is the TOTL of AKG at the moment, but I would never consider it high end.

[mrarroyo]

Originally Posted by gautam

How much do you want a bet that n00bs like me will ask about what headphones to buy under $300. i know i would have a few months ago, they seem high end from an outsider's point of view.

Plus it is all relative. A $1,000 amp would most likely not be considered high end for a home application, however it would be a high end amp for a portable appication. Just some food for thought!

[paul_lindemann]

I think the term "High End" originated with a parallel to High cost! Now, everyone has their own spin on what it means.

To me, it means electronically produced sound that is as close to a live performance as possible. If something is expensive, I just call it tweaky - not necessarilly good!

[boomana]

I think, for the most part, there is already a general consensus among people who have heard and/or owned a lot of gear, what constitutes high-end, even if there are some variables thrown in. HD650s paired with a predator may sound good to someone, but I don't know anyone would put them in the high-end category. Balance those 650s and throw them in Voltron's EMM labs/SDS-XLR rig, and that's a completely different story. The beta22 is inexpensive by comparison to $5000 amps, but it competes with those in sq on the same level. If you've heard it as well as others, there really isn't a doubt. I don't like the sound of the Edition 9s, but that's a discussion that can be had here. If the HFI-780s show up here, I don't know of anyone who has both heard them and a lot of other headphones that would even entertain the idea they're high-end. Etc. blah blah.

I'm just hoping this forum won't get stuck in the argument of what is and what isn't high-end gear. That's a useful discussion, but may be better left in the members' lounge. I'm also hoping that trolling on that front might be zapped as soon as it appears. Most members who have high-end gear, have owned/heard a full range of gear, have gone though a lot of trial and error re building systems, and I'm hoping to learn from those discussions, and not get bogged down in battles of "but my rig should be high-end, too, since most people in my home/school/neighborhood/state/country/universe own bose and ibuds." That's an exaggeration, but think the caution is valid. I plan on deferring to the judgment of those whose knowledge and experience I respect. I'm hoping others do the same.

[Happy Camper]

You can't have ipods and Meridians playing in the same forum. Father would come back from the grave at such a notion.

Joking aside, it would be nice to read what professionals and skilled hobbyists discuss as reference and technically competent components. I would also like to read what musicians and recording technicians think of the musical accuracy of these pieces. I never could afford a Nak. Dragon when they were on the shelves but drooled over the articles written on them. It would be nice to see that here in head-fi.

No, there aren't many who can speak from experience at such level of gear. But the cost shouldn't make those who can't or won't pay for such a level of gear feel inferior. This is a hobby, not a race to the top. If the threads motivate you to attain such level of gear, we want to hear about it. We're all music geeks at heart.

[digger945]

Originally Posted by Happy Camper

...it would be nice to read what professionals and skilled hobbyists discuss as reference and technically competent components. I would also like to read what musicians and recording technicians think of the musical accuracy of these pieces. I never could afford a Nak. Dragon when they were on the shelves but drooled over the articles written on them. It would be nice to see that here in head-fi.

No, there aren't many who can speak from experience at such level of gear. But the cost shouldn't make those who can't or won't pay for such a level of gear feel inferior. This is a hobby, not a race to the top. If the threads motivate you to attain such level of gear, we want to hear about it. We're all music geeks at heart.

Exactly, and well put.
My feeling exactly.

[pcf]

[QUOTE=Happy Camper;4465903]You can't have ipods and Meridians playing in the same forum. Father would come back from the grave at such a notion.

Why not?

To me, whether something is high end or not is totally not important.
I listen to my music through my ipod most of the time these days. Either using my headphones at work, or with my $160 JVC car stereo. I enjoy every minute of it.

-Paul

[G-man]

Originally Posted by mrarroyo

Plus it is all relative. A $1,000 amp would most likely not be considered high end for a home application, however it would be a high end amp for a portable appication. Just some food for thought!

lol, to me $1000 amp is high end.. so there you go.

[jude]

Originally Posted by Happy Camper

....Joking aside, it would be nice to read what professionals and skilled hobbyists discuss as reference and technically competent components. I would also like to read what musicians and recording technicians think of the musical accuracy of these pieces. I never could afford a Nak. Dragon when they were on the shelves but drooled over the articles written on them. It would be nice to see that here in head-fi.

No, there aren't many who can speak from experience at such level of gear. But the cost shouldn't make those who can't or won't pay for such a level of gear feel inferior. This is a hobby, not a race to the top. If the threads motivate you to attain such level of gear, we want to hear about it. We're all music geeks at heart.

I agree with you 100%, Happy Camper. We're going to give this forum a go, and I intend to make it stick. I have a Luxman P-1 headphone amplifier on hand (which I definitely feel is appropriate for discussion in this forum), but I know not everyone wishes to discuss a $2400.00 headphone amp--and I want those that do (like me) to have a place where it's easy to find discussion of such equipment.

As this sub-forum grows, we can break it out into various segments of high-end audio, but I think that's quite a while off.

Consistent with your point, Happy Camper, on most days I drive an old four-cylinder mini SUV, but it doesn't mean I don't like to read Car And Driver from time to time. I've been shopping for a camera recently--with a budget in mind--and, in doing my research and reading, I found the information on the higher-end stuff (read: beyond my camera budget) very helpful to understanding the market offerings and value-for-the-dollar as a whole.

It was the high-end headphone audio discussion that really defined this community's start. Naturally, we all want to find the best performance for the buck, but experiencing and understanding those items that might constitute the outer envelope of performance can help one to understand what kind of value he's actually getting regardless of what he's spending.

[jude]

Originally Posted by pcf

Why not?

To me, whether something is high end or not is totally not important.
I listen to my music through my ipod most of the time these days. Either using my headphones at work, or with my $160 JVC car stereo. I enjoy every minute of it.

-Paul

Like you, Paul, lately I listen to my iPod-fronted portable rig more than my desktop rigs, due only to my current lifestyle. The purpose of this forum isn't to try to insult or invalidate anyone not interested in the high end gear (or those who find it unimportant), but primarily to facilitate an easy place to find discussions for those who are interested in it (like me).

Though some would disagree with me, there are circumstances in which I might bring up an iPod in this forum--for example, an iPod sitting in a Wadia iTransport digitally feeding a Wadia 780i (acting as a DAC) would be something I'd personally bring up in here.