Why does it cost so much?

[Zanth]

After discussing extensively on the irc channel with the boys, as well as reading numerous threads, I decided to take the plunge and invest in the EAR HP4. Orginally I was going to invest in a headmaster and perhaps the Cary, but after reading that the EAR actually sounds similar to the Sugden while giving some benefits of tubes...I thought this is it...this is the ONE. I started researching where I could buy this amp from. For starters, we have Headroom. I love them, but at $3600...that is a bit expensive for me, a Canadian. Even without considering the exchange rates...I still have to consider the duty. An item like this would cost me around $500 Canadian to have shipped into the country. So at the present exchange rate...without shipping, that is $5,514.66, add $500=$6000 for an amp? Not quite...

What to do, what to do.

Next stop, EAR's homepage. They would have a listing of Canadian dealers or at least a distributor that I could contact and save myself big on import costs. I give the only Canadian dealer a call yesterday... and I am told it will cost me $5700 shipped to my door. Um....sorry??? How can it only be a savings of $300 when I don't have to import it from another country? That should be incorporated into the cost already...as I would assume Headroom had done. So once again, Canadians get shafted by their own freaking retailers. I simply don't understand the logic behind massive markup. Would not a company try to lower their costs to gain more in sales? I know this point has been discussed to death...here and at Audio Asylum extensively. Retailers/dealers and distributors always come down hard on the consumers stating that the markups help in warehousing costs...and other "hidden" costs that are not immediately obvious to us consumers. I am often told that servicing, dependability, technical know-how, all this kinda stuff, goes into the elevated cost.

Okay, lets say this is all completely true. How then can a dealer's cost vary sooo much from one Country to another, especially when the product is foreign for both? I think there is a lot of BS that happens in the market, and one has to be very keen and savy to get the best price. It is very very interesting to note some dealers offer incredible prices, at substantially lower costs and still offer such top-notch service, that I am disgusted with the others.

My point to all of this is that I can get the EAR for $3,367.82 Can to my door!!!!! That is nearly 50% what I would have to pay going through my Canadian dealer, or any US dealer. No...instead I had to track down a European dealer and get it at such a reduced price I would be stupid to pass it up.

To make a long story short, how are we supposed to support our local dealers when they really don't strive to sell us products at a decent price.

Does this amp come from Europe? Yes. Is that a valid reason for it to be 2x as much in North America? Not a hope in hell. If it were constructed in Asia, in a sweatshop, I could understand the low price. This is pretty well hand crafted in a first world nation, a G7 country no less...and at %50 of the price.

I'm fed up. This is the second time in 3 months I have been subjected to harsh North American, but specifically Canadian dealer price hikes. So much for patriotic support.

[grinch]

lemme guess.. stoneaudio?

i know, i would probably purchase from there myself. i have found nothing but perfect service from headroom, however, i don't think i could ever believe that perfect service costs $1200 (almost 1/3 of the price of the amp).

but, a few things to keep in mind:

1. shipping takes FOREVER from europe. it has been my experience (only twice though) that shipping just takes forever from there. my sennheiser hd600's took at least two weeks and my dvd from amazon.co.uk took at least three weeks. not necessarily a bad thing, just be patient.

2. if something went wrong with the amp, it would suck trying to return it or repair it and making sure the warranty still stands and paying the nasty shipping to get it to europe, etc. etc. when if you bought it locally you should just ship (or drive depending on how local it is) and probably get a new one within a week.

just some things to keep in mind. and i just did the conversion and after shipping, from stone audio the amp costs: $2,210.56

from headphone.com with 2nd day shipping (after "2-4 week availability"): $3,622.00

i know, why don't you order two from stone audio and send one to me, for being such a great shopping assistant?

i totally understand what you're saying though, and i for one would certainly go balls-to-the-wall and order from europe before i would pay $1400 more for the amp i want. but that's just me..

[dhwilkin]

grinch said...

just some things to keep in mind. and i just did the conversion and after shipping, from stone audio the amp costs: $2,210.56

Darn it, and here I was being quite happy not having the urge to upgrade!

[Anders]

It is the same on the other side of the Atlantic. US products are often more expensive in Europe. Most of my experience is from Sweden. Usually the cost increase is highest for US and Canadian and lower for UK products. With deduction for freight, toll and taxes, they can take an extra 50 percent or even more. Sometimes it is more reasonable like 10 - 15 percent.
I think the biggest problem is the national distributors. They often have exclusive rights of distribution in the import country and add 10, 20, 30, 50 percent for their own costs / profits. They may have some marketing and support costs etc. but on the main this system mainly seems to drive costs up. It may have been more functional in earlier years without the present flow of information, common knowledge of English and alternatives as internet shopping. The dealers seem to get the same rebates for native and imported components.
It is sometimes possible to make big saving by self import from US.
Btw, did you deduct the VAT on the English price, this is often included in European prices but deductable for countries outside EU, although you may have to pay taxes in your own country.
The patriotism in the system is that national products become more competitive by the distibutors additions.

[Zanth]

Hi Anders! I did deduct the VAT which really lowered things...
My issue is that there was 0 marketting for this product. I had to actively search out the dealer and he then had to look up the price and respond to me. The point? I did all the work, I requested the item...he quoted me ludicrous price...and now I am ordering from Britain. The R10s I am getting from Malaysia, (even though they are Japanese) and that is that. This business of supporting your local hi-fi dealer may have been great in the 80s but since the internet took hold, as you said....they need to rethink their profit margins. I am not rich, and I don't believe only the rich should benefit from the best sound possible. It is of course an expensive hobby...but such a dramatic markup is nothing but greed.

[jatinder]

Hi all,

So that makes 3 people here with the R10/HP4 combo at head-fi.

BTW, another good source for the HP4 is Walrus Systems.

http://www.walrus.co.uk.

I've bought a lot of stuff from them over the years and they're extremely helpful (HP4, Musical Fidelity M3 amp, Project Perspective turntable, Stax Omega II, Sugden Headmaster, X-Cans V1 and V2 etc).

Tell 'em I sent you!

--Jatinder

[Anders]

Hi Zanth! I agree with you. I you pay the full dealer price you should also get advice, be able to compare different components in the shop and borrow home one, two or more, until you are satisfied. Then one pays more but minimises the risk.
If the dealer has no demo ex. and only orders you should have the right to return the component with a full refund. Dealers usually don't like this and here is a possibility to get a discount. You can argue that he has no demo, very little work to do and if you take the risk you should also have a substantial discount on the price. Dealers usually get 40 - 50 percent of what you pay so here is something to negotiate about (I think the margins are lower for mass market components as cheap DVDs etc).

[Nick Dangerous]

You're getting the Ear HP4? Bravo! Now that I've heard the Orpheus, Stax Omega, Cary, and Ear... all I can say is you're about to experience The Final Upgrade.

The Ear HP4 is the best headphone amp I've ever heard. The Orpheus exceeds it with certain kinds of music, but sacrifices a lot in the process. Pipe organs, bass guitars, low voices, and visceral excitement were lacking compared with the better all-around athlete that the Ear HP4/HD600/Equinox cable is.

A tube-rolled ZOTL or the Twin Head are the only amps that might be capable of knocking the HP4 off its perch...

[Anders]

Nick,
Sounds wonderful but I don't have that money just now and also want to be very convinced before. The situation is difficult when it is impossible to audition most of the stuff.
I could order an Earmax Pro now, how do you regard this compared to the Ear HP4 (don't expect an exact answer)?

[Nick Dangerous]

I wish I knew. The Earmax Pro, MicroZOTL, and Twin Head amps are among the last ones I need to try.

I'll hear the Earmax Pro at the next Head-Fi meeting, and possibly the Twin Head as well.

[Zanth]

if the twinhead is better than the EAR, I am sending the EAR back...I can get the twin for cheap cheap compartively.

[Anders]

I believe that the Ear is better than the < $1000 competitors, it seems to beat or go even with Orpheus and the Stax top system. The question is rather how much better?

[Zanth]

Well, unless I move Stateside after school, I will never really be able to spend that much on a headphone system and justify it to my wife. So the O is out of the question. I could get the Omegas but for now, the EAR seems to be what I like in an amp...course...again, I have never heard it, nor will I be able to audition it.

[kerelybonto]

A good way to avoid the duties, at least for those who live in the US (I don't know the foreign laws), is to ask the retailer to declare the purchase as a gift. No import tarriffs then, and most are happy to do it for you.

That still doesn't address the issue of the higher general costs outside of the manufacturing country though, I guess. ...

kerelybonto

[jatinder]

The Omega IIs are horrible - I posted a brief review of them a few days ago.

I haven't heard the MicroZOTL, Cary or "Twin head" amps.

The EarMax Pro sounds very very good. It is more "tubey" sounding than the HP4. Both have great bass, the midrange is probably overall better on the EMP, and both have great treble.

The problem with the EMP is its power supply. With the R10, at anything more than a normal listening level, the sound becomes very closed in. The HP4 has much more headroom.

One thing you should try is the not-often-mentioned EarMax Pro "super-duper-model". This retails for $1500 (I think) and is identical to the EMP but has better quality parts and tubes, and has a proper (ie big and beefy) power supply.

IMO, that should seriously give the HP4 a run for its money.

--Jatinder