Smyth SVS Realiser Virtual Surround Technology for Headphones

[Edwood]

Originally Posted by wavoman

I think we are at 7 for the group buy at the moment ... it seems we all care somewhat about the price, and would like to buy the black box without the entry-level Stax, since we all will have phones and amps of higher quality.

I think we'd need at least 20 people (just a guess) to be a remotely effective group buy.

They seemed pretty adamant about bundling the Stax 2050 system. It wouldn't be too difficult to resell the Stax 2050 since they will probably be more or less including them at cost.

But yeah, I'd prefer a barebones version.

-Ed

[yepyep_]

Wow..

[philodox]

I might be interested in a group buy, though I don't really need the headphones... and I might want to wait for the 'pro version' that one of the Smyth bros hinted at since it will have balanced inputs/outputs and possibly digital as well.

A couple questions for the people that paid more attention to the presentation:

1. Could you take your Smyth box to a wicked speaker rig, do measurements, remove it from said rig, take it home, hook it up to your headphone rig... and effectively duplicate the wicked speaker rig?

2. Does this only work with Stax, or should any headphone work? I guess they chose Stax due to its excellent imaging... in that case, my K340's should work fine.

[wavoman]

URGENT URGENT -- something is NOT RIGHT here.

I just found Beyer HeadZone -- it is EXACTLY the Smyth thing 100%, with the head-tracking, the testing, DSP, the whole 9 yards. And it is an announced product, both pro and consumer versions!!

I gotta look deeper, just found this 1 minute ago and wanted to post ASAP.

Looks to be all finsihed and shipping, no phones -- and Beyer says it is patented, and make no reference to Smyth ... huh ???

Can't locate a price or dealer yet, but there is a part number on beyerdynamic worldwide And there are firmware downloads, so this thing is shipping!

Go to the pro part of the site (Broadcast, Studio, Video and Production) for the better explanation, but see the Consumer part as well. Beyer has won awards, etc. for this -- all described on the site. You will be floored ... deja vu to CanJam 08 and the Smyth room. What's up? Smyth had theirs out in 2006, pre-dating this ... are they connected? Why didn't the Smyth brothers tell us about this current product that is oh so similar?

I am going to download the pdf of the manual from the pro section now. More tonight after work. I am very puzzled. After it all settles I will email Smyth unless someone here digs up the details.

[wavoman]

SVS has the in-ear mikes and the SD card ... advantage over HeadZone. ALso SVS corrects for the last inch (inside the cans) and your personal hearing differences (but HeadZone could be tweaked to get close, see below).

OK, no manual on the Beyer site, but a detailed brochure. HeadZone does use the same type of head-turn tracker, and does compute the HRTF and so on, then uses DSP to replicate any listening room. No question Smyth head-turn tracker would violate Beyer patent if Beyer has one, who knows?

With the HeadZone you use a PC or MAC to describe the room setup with various parameters. Different than in-ear measurement. But you can save and download these profiles (Fire Wire instead of SD card, so not as portable). I like that you can tweak the set-up and such with your laptop, and thus you can correct yourself for in-ear and hearing differences.

Certainly need to dig in before big buy at Smyth, no?

[Edwood]

May be the same idea, but sounds like the execution is not as good.

Beyerdynamic Headzone Pro

Impressions

I experimented with remixing some familiar surround material on the Headzone headphones and was able to create good mixes that worked exactly as expected on a full 5.1 speaker system. Listening to commercial SACD and DVD-As late at night via the analogue inputs was a joy as well. However, I found that the system added an air of artificiality to the overall sound, simply because of the room-modelling artifacts — although, with careful adjustment of the relevant parameters, this can be minimised. This roomy characteristic is always present when the unit is creating the binaural surround sound stage, but I learned quickly to ignore it and it didn't affect my ability to mix or, for that matter, to enjoy commercial releases.

The Headzone Pro works remarkably well, provided you take the trouble to optimise the various settings properly. When I first heard this system at a trade show I wasn't impressed with its portrayal of a surround environment, largely because it didn't seem very stable. However, having played with the unit over an extended period, and having configured it carefully for my own ears, I am impressed with how well it works. It is perhaps not quite as precise or realistic as Studer's prototype BRS system (see the box above), but it's not far off — and the Headzone Pro is affordable and in production!

-Ed

[wavoman]

Thanks, great link! You're the best. Seems like Studer had it all, the in-ear measurements, etc.

Maybe SVS is the one to buy, but still I feel a little ripped-off, since none of this is really new (head tracking, etc. all well known, just not to me!). I would say now that Smyth is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

There's always a let down after a high.

[ingwe]

Originally Posted by evilking

I've never understood why this type of technology requires extra hardware?

If the effect prevails with varying amps and headphones then couldn't the surround audio be processed in the digital domain? Really all that's happening in the black box is some sort of fancy downmixing. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's all real complicated and high-end, but there is no reason for external hardware.


How does analog inputs even make sense?



EK

Michael told me that one of their goals is to license their technology. So, perhaps in a few years you may be able to purchase a Dennon home theater surround-sound receiver containing the Smyth secret-sauce.

-m

[ingwe]

Originally Posted by philodox

I might be interested in a group buy, though I don't really need the headphones... and I might want to wait for the 'pro version' that one of the Smyth bros hinted at since it will have balanced inputs/outputs and possibly digital as well.

A couple questions for the people that paid more attention to the presentation:

1. Could you take your Smyth box to a wicked speaker rig, do measurements, remove it from said rig, take it home, hook it up to your headphone rig... and effectively duplicate the wicked speaker rig?

2. Does this only work with Stax, or should any headphone work? I guess they chose Stax due to its excellent imaging... in that case, my K340's should work fine.

Yes, and Yes. Isn't that super cool!!!!

Furthermore, you can save the configuation to a SD card. Imagine a collection of speaker/room signatures!

I'm telling you guys, this has ramifications down the road we've only begun to consider--and many, as of now, well-hidden.

[Edwood]

Originally Posted by wavoman

Thanks, great link! You're the best. Seems like Studer had it all, the in-ear measurements, etc.

Maybe SVS is the one to buy, but still I feel a little ripped-off, since none of this is really new (head tracking, etc. all well known, just not to me!). I would say now that Smyth is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

There's always a let down after a high.

The same could be said about Dolby Digital vs. DTS. But many people found DTS to be superior.

-Ed

[banjo]

The beyerdynamic does not allow for a true personal calibr ation like the svs. its more like an enhanced dolby headphone i think - doesnt relly interest me at all. I have a dolby headphone denon at home. Remember the first article made on svs by widescreen review magazine back many years ago, where they calibrated using a mega buck reference system and still couldnt tell the difference. (the link in my original tread is now dead, but they wrote 2 pages on svs and used teh word revolution!) Being no expert on expensive headphones, as i only ever use my senn hd600, i still feel the stax to be a better choice than the beyers, simply because this is what smyth has chosen as the ideal combo, and this is what has been used in all those demoes where people have praised the svs box. And stax is certainly not chosen for any reasons to do with cost cutting. Thier flat frequency response over the entire human range of hearing, i believe, is what makes them ideal for svs playback - you simply get the sound of the speakers.

There has been a few threads on this on headfi since the very begining - search under my name or simply smyth and svs, its just that few ever took notice. I hope now that its been shown at canjam this will all change.
the beyers has been brought up before and there was also once a palnned svs unit fom yamha. why yamaha stopped the project i dont know, but i feel it might well have to do with the fact that they produce all kinds of virtual surround loudspeaker systems, surround receivers and speakers themselves and that the svs might make all these seem obsolete.

i hope we will get a hdmi option preferable with a video passthrough function, as i hope to buy and connect a ps3 - it only has one hdmi out. Mayby an extra hdmi input or two and a tos and coaxial for convenience would be nice. Then it would be a complete unit, that would do it all, and I would happily pay an extra 100 dollars for this feature.


could anyone that went to the demo please tell if they know whether its possibly to calibrate using just two speakers in stereo intstead of 5 or 7, simply by turning your body in the process to reflect sound comming at certain angles. in the future a plan to have a good stereo system and for surround simply copy the sound using the svs for a full 7 channel ride for headphone playback.

[bozebuttons]

Originally Posted by banjo

could anyone that went to the demo please tell if they know whether its possibly to calibrate using just two speakers in stereo intstead of 5 or 7, simply by turning your body in the process to reflect sound comming at certain angles. in the future a plan to have a good stereo system and for surround simply copy the sound using the svs for a full 7 channel ride for headphone playback.

I asked this question on sunday ,The answer is yes you can set the system up un a 2 channel system. First you calibrate facing the front speakers & then turn around with your back to the speakers to calibrate as if you had rear speakers,it also works in a center channel somehow,even if you don't have one.

[Erik Garci]

Originally Posted by bozebuttons

I asked this question on sunday ,The answer is yes you can set the system up un a 2 channel system. First you calibrate facing the front speakers & then turn around with your back to the speakers to calibrate as if you had rear speakers,

Does it always wait a few seconds between speakers, giving you plenty of time to turn?

Originally Posted by bozebuttons

it also works in a center channel somehow,even if you don't have one.

My guess is that it can create a phantom center by splitting the center signal to the left and right speaker locations.

[shomie911]

I listened to the non-personalized setup at CanJam and it was amazing.

When they turned it on I freaked out because I thought they were blaring the speakers in a quiet room, I quickly took them off, and when I did the sound went with it.

Keep in mind this was with the non-personalized default setup, and still it was so realistic.

I am truly impressed by what Smyth is doing.

[bozebuttons]

Originally Posted by Erik Garci

Does it always wait a few seconds between speakers, giving you plenty of time to turn?

My guess is that it can create a phantom center by splitting the center signal to the left and right speaker locations.

You should have plenty of time to turn around,I think it is also a differant process to setup a 2 channel system.
It seems as it is very versitale in setup options & can be controled by its remote.