Got a speeding ticket... need advice (NY)

[Uncle Erik]

For actual speed, I find that my GPS unit does a pretty good job of telling me how fast I'm going.

As for tickets, well, I think you should just pay them and deal with them responsibly. In April, I got a ticket for making a U-turn in a business district. No traffic coming the other direction, I was slow and careful, etc. etc. First ticket I'd gotten in nine years. Oh well. I paid it and went to traffic school.

Fighting tickets is usually unsuccessful. Judges don't care. At all. The only strategy I've seen work is scheduling multiple continuances. Sometimes, the cop doesn't get the new date and fails to show.

The other tactic I used once on a speeding ticket was setting it for trial and then serving the DA with full, formal discovery. I was a poor public defender at the time, so I couldn't afford the $200 or so fine. But an armload of discovery had the DA on the phone, whining, within five minutes of getting it. He was more than happy to drop the fine to $35 as long as he didn't have to spend several hours on my discovery requests.

Formal discovery isn't exactly a DIY prospect unless you know what you're doing, but you can always try scheduling the ticket for a full trial. Request a jury if one is available. The DA will be very, very, very unhappy at the prospect of prepping for a jury trial over a speeding ticket. They're usually open to lowering the fine and might give you some other options, as well.

[Dzjudz]

I absolutely HATE the argument of people saying: 'well, the government just wants to add some extra gold to their piggybank so they set up these speeding cameras in ridiculous places.' You are speeding, a.k.a. breaking the law REGARDLESS of whether there is a camera or not. If you don't do it, you won't get caught. How friggin' simple must it be for such people to get it? DON'T SPEED = NO TICKET.

[kansei]

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I absolutely HATE the argument of people saying: 'well, the government just wants to add some extra gold to their piggybank so they set up these speeding cameras in ridiculous places.' You are speeding, a.k.a. breaking the law REGARDLESS of whether there is a camera or not. If you don't do it, you won't get caught. How friggin' simple must it be for such people to get it? DON'T SPEED = NO TICKET.

Some laws were made to be broken. Some laws are obsolete. There are places where the speed limit is deliberately lowered by the municipality so they can trap speeders for $$$$$.

There is a place a few towns over where the speed limit is 25 MPH on a 4 lane divided highway. Ridiculous.

What's more, there are municipalities that hire private companies who litter the landscape with speed enforcement cameras. The private company gets a percentage of all money collected from the fines. Just look at Phoenix, they made the papers with their newest scheme. Here is another link on this. Study: Maryland county's red light cameras net $2.85 million, increase accidents - Autoblog

What even bothers me more are the red light cameras. The companies who are hired by the town shorten the duration of the yellow light so more people "run" the light. 6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit

The towns should concentrate on curtailing dangerous drivers, not printing tickets for profit. In addition, some of the speed limits are downright ridiculous and should be revised.

[Uncle Erik]

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I absolutely HATE the argument of people saying: 'well, the government just wants to add some extra gold to their piggybank so they set up these speeding cameras in ridiculous places.' You are speeding, a.k.a. breaking the law REGARDLESS of whether there is a camera or not. If you don't do it, you won't get caught. How friggin' simple must it be for such people to get it? DON'T SPEED = NO TICKET.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Here's another:

Michigan Police Chiefs Admit Speeding Tickets Are About Money

A police chief admitted that speeding tickets are all about revenue. You might think that's harmless, but think about how finite police resources are being used for revenue generation. In my neighborhood, there's been an uptick of car break-ins and other property crime.

Should the police be trying to nab dollars or patrolling the neighborhoods to stop and catch the thieves?

We're taxed heavily to pay for the police department. I don't mind that. I know I have to pay taxes for public servants. But why should the public servants be trying to make a buck off a largely victimless crime while doing nothing to keep someone from smashing my windows to take a sweatshirt and a couple of CDs?

Personally, I think our tax money and police resources are better spent stopping actual crime.

[aaron313]

You can tell when it's about money because if it's not, you will be leaving in handcuffs.

[vcoheda]

two things.

1. if available as an option (it will say so on the ticket, maybe on the back), request a supporting statement from the police officer that pulled you over. if he doesn't give you one, you should be able to have the ticket dismissed.

2. plead not guilty and go to court. by doing this, you should be able to get the violation knocked down to the next bracket. will save you points.

you worst thing you can do is the plead guilty and pay the fine.

[MrSlacker]

Originally Posted by vcoheda

two things.
1. if available as an option (it will say so on the ticket, maybe on the back), request a supporting statement from the police officer that pulled you over. if he doesn't give you one, you should be able to have the ticket dismissed.

Here is a copy of my ticket, is "SUPPORTING DEPOSITION" what you are talking about?

Also, on the left side it says that ticket must be mailed by 12/16/08, but on the right side under Section B it says "NOTE: Mail this NOT GUILTY Please within 48 hours," so which one is it? Do I have two weeks or two days?

(Click on the thumbnail)

[vcoheda]

Originally Posted by MrSlacker

Here is a copy of my ticket, is "SUPPORTING DEPOSITION" what you are talking about?

yep.

a friend of mine recently got a ticket in new york. he requested the supporting deposition, was never given one, and got the ticket dismissed when he went to court because of it. pretty nice. no points. no fine. nothing.

[vagarach]

Oh, things happen like this. There is a stretch of absolutely safe highway running on the outside of my home town, and at one place the posted limit changes over a short distance from 80km/h to 70km/h, so the cops just park off there and catch people. If you are 16km/h above the posted limit, 1 demerit point and a fine. You could easily and safely do 120km/h on that road, but hey, what can you do.

You were doing 60mph in a 45mph zone, and I regularly see people doing 100km/h in that 70 zone, which is the same thing. Doing 70km/h on that 4 lane highway with NO cars in sight is a tough, tough thing to do. But I try to bear it.

In europe (switzerland) its even worse!

[Cold Brains]

I've been living and driving in NYS (throughout upstate/central NY) for the past 10 years and have a couple experiences with traffic court and can also speak about a few friends experiences.

1) If all you're worried about is getting rid of the points and could care less about the fine, you can plead guilty by mail. Once the Court accepts your plea and you pay the necessary fine then take one of the many state accredited defensive driving courses. Unless they've changed the law, you cannot apply a prior course to remove/reduce points. So, do not sign up and take a driving course in the meantime, you must wait until the points are applied.

2) Personally, I've never pleaded guilty by mail because many (if not most) NY municipalities (outside NYC) will offer a reduced charge in exchange for a guilty plea. Look, they do not want to waste their time going through the motions of trial and would prefer to just plea their cases. Usually, the Court (as in the prosecutor/DA) will offer to reduce the speeding charge 10 mph or so (and thus the fine and points).

He/she may be super-nice and offer an even sweeter deal, letting you plea to an even lesser charge that does not carry points (ex) "failure to obey a traffic signal" or opening a door in traffic (yes, my friend was given this option in Albany as a reduced charge for a speeding ticket). In small to large municipalities with dedicated traffic courts this is often standard operating procedure.

If you want to roll with this, you can try contacting the Court or prosecutor prior to the scheduled court date to try to work something out. But often this still works even the day of the trial, especially if there are a lot of cases scheduled that day/night.

WARNING: This strategy isn't always a viable option, particularly in small towns with a town justice. I've been to some bush league, small-town courts in NYS without anything approximating a district attorney or prosecutor. Instead the town justice "tried" the case with just the officer and me present. She wasn't having any nonsense. "What's your story, son?" "And officer?" Ok, driver is guilty! Looking at the population of the Town of Ulster... you're probably screwed.

3) You could try filing continuances/delays for the trial date, but seeing as the police officer is a local not a state trooper, it is unlikely there will be a scheduling/vacation/etc conflict that cause him to no show up. In a town the size of Ulster, they probably only have court a few times a month and you can bet that cop will show up.

All in all, you'll need to decide whether driving upstate 140 miles to fight/plead guilty in person is worth your time and money. There aren't too many ways to trip up the court on a standard speeding violation. Even the officer's failure to provide a deposition isn't a clear cut dismissal. But, most depositions (or whatever) for speeding tickets are basically officer fill-in-the-blank and/or check box forms, so it takes him/her 5 minutes to prepare and mail out.

If I were in your situation, I'd save myself the hassle and plead guilty by mail and, then, take the driving course to remove the points (again, make sure the points are first applied to your record before taking the course). Normally I wouldn't make this my suggestion, but given your location and distance from the court (and the size of the town), this is probably the best use of your time and money rather than gambling on being offered a deal on your trial date. I mean, if you lived in that town I'd say talk to the Court/prosecutor and/or show up to fight the ticket in Court (why not?), but you don't live right around the corner... Nonetheless, the decision is yours.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck!

[EtherealApril]

Originally Posted by vagarach

Oh, things happen like this. There is a stretch of absolutely safe highway running on the outside of my home town, and at one place the posted limit changes over a short distance from 80km/h to 70km/h, so the cops just park off there and catch people. If you are 16km/h above the posted limit, 1 demerit point and a fine. You could easily and safely do 120km/h on that road, but hey, what can you do.

You were doing 60mph in a 45mph zone, and I regularly see people doing 100km/h in that 70 zone, which is the same thing. Doing 70km/h on that 4 lane highway with NO cars in sight is a tough, tough thing to do. But I try to bear it.

In europe (switzerland) its even worse!

There's a stretch like that on a road that I drive on at least once a week. The speed limit changes from 80km/h to 70 and then back up to 80 in the space of about 400 metres. About once every four journeys, I see a cop on the side of the road with a handheld radar waiting to catch unsuspecting motorists. It's ridiculous because the road was only opened a couple of years ago and there are no obvious reasons why there should be a speed limit change. It's like the section was designed to keep the revenue flowing in.

I read in the local news that the police in Queensland have a backlog of about a million fines that they haven't yet responded to. I got my first speeding fine a few weeks ago. I've got points to burn, so that doesn't worry me too much but I figure that if they want their cash they can wait a bit and work it out of me.

[aaron313]

In northern CA, the cops won't often ticket on the highway for less than 75mph. Because of that, I try not to exceed 75; 10-over is a fair unwritten rule in these parts.

[gloco]

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I absolutely HATE the argument of people saying: 'well, the government just wants to add some extra gold to their piggybank so they set up these speeding cameras in ridiculous places.' You are speeding, a.k.a. breaking the law REGARDLESS of whether there is a camera or not. If you don't do it, you won't get caught. How friggin' simple must it be for such people to get it? DON'T SPEED = NO TICKET.

Dude, you live in the Netherlands. How many people live there? Compare that to NY and you'll understand why people speed here. If everyone drove at the speed limit or below it (which is generally 55MPH), it would take hours to drive anywhere within city limits or on any highways (like it doesn't already).

Furthermore, I think there's an 11 point limit on license's, so if MrS got fined for another 7 points, his license would be revoked. I think that's the crux of his argument (besides a higher insurance rate). Four points is quite ridiculous for a simple speeding violation, imho.

Give the kid a break and quit being such ball breakers (you know who you are).

[nick_charles]

Originally Posted by gloco

If everyone drove at the speed limit or below it (which is generally 55MPH), it would take hours to drive anywhere within city limits or on any highways (like it doesn't already).

Is your point that long distances and heavy traffic are a valid excuse for speeding ? If so I have to say that if you would like to read the ROSPA research you will find it is far more dangerous than keeping to the speed limit.

Try the South Circular in London if you want to experience really frustrating driving, and I have driven in New York State and NYC. I will admit driving in NYC was pretty unpleasant. Though in absolute terms driving in LA was the absolute pits, an unremittingly awful experience.

Furthermore, I think there's an 11 point limit on license's, so if MrS got fined for another 7 points, his license would be revoked.

Then it would be in his interests to drive more circumspectly and not get any more points. Nobody is forcing him to break the speed limits.

It is 3 to 6 points in the UK for speeding and collecting 12 points in 3 years can lead to temporary disqualification. But nobody is forcing him to speed.

I think that's the crux of his argument (besides a higher insurance rate). Four points is quite ridiculous for a simple speeding violation, imho.

Not the opinion of traffic safety bodies, ROSPA for instance is firmly in favour of high penalties for speeding.

Give the kid a break and quit being such ball breakers (you know who you are).

Look, the OP comes here and admits to speeding , but shows no remorse or sense of guilt or wrongdoing and instead tries desperately to dodge the consequences of *his* actions, nobody elses. The lesson he is getting from a contingent here is that you should do all you can to evade the consequences of your actions and not be a responsible adult. Some people here happen to think this is not a good life lesson to learn.

[Dzjudz]

Originally Posted by gloco

Dude, you live in the Netherlands. How many people live there? Compare that to NY and you'll understand why people speed here.

Well that is just ignorant. The Randstad area in the Netherlands is one of the largest conurbations of Europe and the traffic situation is horrific. For the rest of your post I second nick_charles' response. We have a point system here too and it's probably worse than yours. However, I have never gotten a ticket, because it is not that hard to avoid getting a ticket. Seriously. All these arguments about 'everybody does it' and 'you won't get anywhere if you don't speed' are crap arguments. That is my point of view and I feel that if you speed you face the consequences.