UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5

[neezee]

thx for the review...

[HeadphoneAddict]

Originally Posted by sum1

Just curious, how did you separate the amp and DAC for the pico? Does it have a line out that bypasses the amp?

I have to use the Pico like a pre-amp with variable volume out. It seems to like driving amps as well as headphones, and with low gain it has plenty of output to act as a line-out.

[Kel Ghu]

So I finally bought a Predator to compare it to my Pico. It has only a 100hr but I already pretty much agree with the review.
The bass of the Predator is definitly a bit different, more punchy and tighter, even, harder. But it doesn't sound deeper to me. For exemple, on Marvin Gaye "Got to give it up", the bass drum response is at a higher frequency with the Predator, more in the high bass than low bass... Which one got it right? The pico or the predator?

[HeadphoneAddict]

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu

So I finally bought a Predator to compare it to my Pico. It has only a 100hr but I already pretty much agree with the review.
The bass of the Predator is definitly a bit different, more punchy and tighter, even, harder. But it doesn't sound deeper to me. For exemple, on Marvin Gaye "Got to give it up", the bass drum response is at a higher frequency with the Predator, more in the high bass than low bass... Which one got it right? The pico or the predator?

Based on my listening during burn-in of the large cap inside, I don't think that question can be answered till the Predator has 2 weeks of 24/7 running on it (350 hours). I didn't think it was anything super-special till after that point, and 600 hours would be what the manufacturer recommends.

I would listen for 1-2 hours, and then let it run till the next night without listening, then listen again for 1-2 hours, and repeated that up to 1100 hours. I actually posted the run-time log in another predator thread. Between 400-600 hours is when it started to sound more like a desktop amp to me. I heard minor refinements after 600 hours, all the way to 1,000 hours, but nothing major after 600-700 hours. But Jamato8 heard refinements in bass and power output handling all the way through 2,000 hours.

So, I vote you leave it running for another 7-10 days and listen again, and then enjoy it from that point forward (unless you just have to have the best sound possible as soon as possible, then put 700-1,000 hours on it by running constantly )

[HeadphoneAddict]

PS: Burn-in Method.

I usually burn-in with music. I plug the amp and a source into power, and then run my laptop or mp3 player 24 hours a day on repeat. I turn off the amp for about 2-3 hours during the day.

You can also download both a 20 minute pink noise sound file (hiss with all sound frequencies at once), and a 2 minute digital silence file from the internet, put them on a media player or a CD, and run both sound files continuously. The silence lets the amps and headphones cool off. Download here Michael Knowles: Extras

This download also includes some test tones, and you can listen to each amp or headphones at various low bass frequencies (starting at 16Hz, then 20, 25, 31.5, 40, 50, etc). My HFI-780 play down to 16-20 vs Grado rolling off below 30.

[Kel Ghu]

RE: Burnin

You should get this sound generator. It has White Noise (all freq at same amplitude), Pink Noise (All freq, decreasing amplitude with freq), Test Tone and Sweep. It also has a rest period, that let you set burnin and silence period (I do default, 30min of silence every 2 hours)

Download section for Burninwave generator

Also check out the website, it has sound files too. I am pretty surprise this website is not more known.

I tested my hear with it. I can hear upto 20KHz (but I have to turn up the volume a lot) then nothing, then around 26KHz and up I can hear again... But the sound is wierd, because it does not sound as high as from 15KHz to 20KHz. Try the sweep upto 50KHz over 10-15 seconds.

[meusickfrek]

Originally Posted by wired00

For anyone using the se530's here's what i found when testing a few different opamps with the D2, if anyones interested

To be honest I wasn't expecting much difference with IEM. I thought most change would be in open or closed cans...this is probably true to some extent but I personally noticed huge differences in both low and highs.

I was happy last night to finally solder my first opamps to the little IC to 8 dip converters - LM6172 & THS4032. Damn those things are too small!

I've now tested using:

1\
main socket\ LT1364 (stock)
second socket\ NE4432 (stock)

2\
main socket\ OPA2111
second socket\ OPA2111

3\
main socket\ LM6172
second socket\ THS4032
Larry suggested this setup mostly for a livewire/grado sounding setup but i liked what he said about the opamps so wanted to test with se530's too

I've only had time to REALLY listen to one song
Interpol - Hands Away

I chose this song because it has nice vocals, riffs, bass, its quite short, i know it well and it also has quite a busy section around 1:50
Here's the song:
YouTube - Interpol-Hands away
2:10, is where I'm referring below to the bass guitar kicking in (or evidently not with stock) and throughout the song you can clearly hear the cymbal I'm referring too. Of course I wasn't using youtube as a reference track! lossless was used. I just wanted to link the track so you know what style Im listening to when i give my opinions

main socket\ OPA2111
second socket\ OPA2111
So much bass...more than any of the other setups. nice separation, highs were nice and live sounding. Instruments sounded very spread out...very wide soundstage but sounded nice with this track. High hat sounded clear and live, bass guitar was very pronounced along with the kick drum.

I also listened all day yesterday at work with this setup and electronica was nice. Very full bass. Couldn't complain Of course I wasn't paying full attention but certainly noticed the nice bass.

main socket\ LM6172
second socket\ THS4032
Nice bass again, not quite such a wide sound stage as the 2x OPA2111. Cymbals sounded fantastic just like I was watching the drummer hit the high hat live. Bass guitar was clearly pronounced sounded great. Kick drum clear. Vocals were fantastic.

One thing interesting with this setup is that there wasn't a confused sound when all instruments were playing. I could clearly distinguish each instrument. I could also distinguish with the OPA2111's but the bass was a little heavy with this style music i thought...

Edit: forgot to mention, one amazing change with this opamp setup is that in certain rhythm guitar riffs you could CLEARLY hear the electric guitars distortion ... you know the classic electric guitar distortion when playing through a PA speaker? But not just that...it sounded so live. I loved it. I think its characters like this which the different opamps emphasis. Subtle things which add together to improve certain tracks. Anyway, I'd Never heard this in the song... i was amazed. Well...so amazed that I forgot while writing this

main socket\ LT1364 (stock)
second socket\ NE4432 (stock)
The standard setup sounded fairly rubbish when directly comparing. Its strange because up until now I thought it sounded fantastic stock!

Basically, bass was non existent in comparison. At certain points in the song i knew I could clearly distinguish the kick drum & bass guitar with the other setups. As stock I could barely hear the kick drum, and bass guitar was a no show. Vocals sounded quite good but the high hat was shocking. It was really bright and just didn't sound "live" like the others did.... i don't know but it wasn't as nice over all. I hope it wasn't just a mental "oh thats stock it can't be good!!"

Anyway I know the song well and recently saw Interpol so know how the sound engineers want them to sound live. I remember the bass was very nice and full which was just how setup 2 & 3 sounded

I'll keep listening to the LM6172 & THS4032 today but will listen again more scrutinizing tonight with a couple other tracks

Other setups I'm keen to try based on Larry's suggestions are:
2x LM6172
&
1\ ISL55002
2\ THS4032

I can't track down the ISL55002 atm though, anyone want to get rid of one (and another LM6172) and can ship to australia?

OK, this puts everything into perspective. I know Larry and Hiflight have given their perspective (much appreciated) but it's the description of the stock opamps that make sense. I have hd580 and have heard that the bass is loose if not amplified properly and the highs can be harsh. Now I'm thinking I need to do some rolling, that 6172/4032 setup sounds awsome, I'm just a little worried bout soldering, serious noob here. I heard the set is about $25.00, is this correct. If anyone gets around to finding a set of opamps that sound just as good that need no soldering I sure would like to know about it. Off topic, Paradise radio streams great sounding music!!

[wired00]

Originally Posted by meusickfrek

OK, this puts everything into perspective. I know Larry and Hiflight have given their perspective (much appreciated) but it's the description of the stock opamps that make sense. I have hd580 and have heard that the bass is loose if not amplified properly and the highs can be harsh. Now I'm thinking I need to do some rolling, that 6172/4032 setup sounds awsome, I'm just a little worried bout soldering, serious noob here. I heard the set is about $25.00, is this correct. If anyone gets around to finding a set of opamps that sound just as good that need no soldering I sure would like to know about it. Off topic, Paradise radio streams great sounding music!!

yeah im pretty noob with soldering too ... just make sure you get a soldering iron with fine tip and also fine solder. you'll also need some solder braid to remove solder incase you bridge any pins. the 8pin SOIC opamps are REALLY tiny

you'll just need a bunch of these (SO8 to 8-pin DIP Adapter (p/n 970601) - 970601) which convert the Surface mount opamp to plug into the larger 8pin DIP sockets of the amp. Brown dog shipping is dirt cheap, was $1 shipped to AUS :P

Also, make absolute certain you plug the opamps in the correct way! take note of pin1, even draw with a perminent market on a compenent closest to it so you remember after removing the stock opamp

Yeah each opamp should only be $3 or $4US. I bought from a distributer via the national site (i ended up buying through RS Components)

National Semiconductor, High-Performance Analog for Energy-Efficient PowerWise Designs

Hope that helps a little

PS: browndog had a little advice on how to solder surface mount parts + videos
faq

[meusickfrek]

Originally Posted by wired00

yeah im pretty noob with soldering too ... just make sure you get a soldering iron with fine tip and also fine solder. you'll also need some solder braid to remove solder incase you bridge any pins. the 8pin SOIC opamps are REALLY tiny

you'll just need a bunch of these (SO8 to 8-pin DIP Adapter (p/n 970601) - 970601) which convert the Surface mount opamp to plug into the larger 8pin DIP sockets of the amp. Brown dog shipping is dirt cheap, was $1 shipped to AUS :P

Also, make absolute certain you plug the opamps in the correct way! take note of pin1, even draw with a perminent market on a compenent closest to it so you remember after removing the stock opamp

Yeah each opamp should only be $3 or $4US. I bought from a distributer via the national site (i ended up buying through RS Components)

National Semiconductor, High-Performance Analog for Energy-Efficient PowerWise Designs

Hope that helps a little

PS: browndog had a little advice on how to solder surface mount parts + videos
faq

Thanks for all the great info and links, for those prices it's a no brainer, ordering parts now! Thanks again

[Jaw007]

Thanks for the info.

[HeadphoneAddict]

It's easier to PM HiFlight about doing the soldering for you. The LM6172 can be had in DIP form, not just SOIC. The THS4032 I have is an SOIC on DIP adapter that HiFlight made for me.

This combo also seems to be an excellent combination for the Podectomized IM716 with 47-69 ohm resistors, and producing terrific bass even up to 102 ohms added.

[meusickfrek]

Does it matter which LM6172 you get, I went to the national semi site and the part numbers have Letters after the numbers (LM6172xxx).

[wired00]

the national site isn't very clear on the coatings and metals used but usually different letters on the end mean this (from what i figured out)

also the N or M postfix is referring to whether the component is a DIP or SOIC type. DIP is a larger component that will plug straight into the DIP socket on your amp, SOIC means it must be surface soldered onto an adapter before it will fit into the 8DIP socket on your amp.

but usually there is also MMX or MX etc, this is referring to the metal used in the connectors (i think?)

[Kel Ghu]

I noticed that the best bass I've had is by connecting both pico and predator together, with Pico as a DAC. Punch and definition of the predator and deepness of the Pico. Though my pred has only 160hr on it.

[kostalex]

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu

I noticed that the best bass I've had is by connecting both pico and predator together, with Pico as a DAC. Punch and definition of the predator and deepness of the Pico. Though my pred has only 160hr on it.

Man, you just answered the highly-discussed question "Pico or Predator"!