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| Portable Headphone Amps Discussion of portable headphone amps. |
12-20-2007, 08:29 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
Moderator
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: S Florida
Posts: 4,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8
That is my interpretation of what I am hearing.
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i understand that, but I genuinely want to know what you mean by "more dynamic than the SR-71" so I can understand your interpretation. There are a lot of phrases people say that I don't understand in terms of either my experience or weighted against what I've read before, so I ask for clarification. For example, lately I've seen the description "musical" in so many different contexts in reviews or impressions posts, it has lost all meaning to me other than giving me the feeling that someone likes something. I'm not trying to be contentious, I really would like to know.
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12-20-2007, 08:39 PM
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500+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_maher
I look forward to your long term impressions.
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We all do! Just don’t forget to tell us at what point you start likening it better than the Xin reference. 
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12-20-2007, 08:40 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Santa Rosa, CA --image Katmandu, Nepal Summer 2006 *We are but a cosmic blink or was that wink?*
Posts: 7,601
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To me musical is what I hear in live music be it Rock, Heavy metal, acoustical orchestral, acoustical guitar and so on. Taken within the context of what I hear in notes, macro and micro changes within notes and the influence of that upon what "I" interpret as natural within a genera of music.
Dynamics as that fluctuation of sound with a clean leading edge that has impact, has attack that does not bleed onto other notes or areas where it should not.
__________________
John aka Jam and Jama
Photo gallery at: www.pbase.com/jamato8 Recent publication: Ethnobotany Research & Applications, Vol 7 (2009) Kam Guilzhouh nyim Guangxxih di Benxtux Wenchual nyim Zihyuanc dih Gonxliix: Kam Local Indigenous Knowledge and Sustainable Resource Management in Guizhou and Guangxi Provinces, China http://www.ethnobotanyjournal.org/
The one constant in life is change, so will that change?
Feel with your own heart, see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.
JH13's > Why stay home when you can go to the concert?
Listening with: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2 #469
Digital conversion: the all new MB-1 optical dual Wolfson portable dac
Amps I am currently listening with: RSA P-51 Mustang, SR 71A, iBasso D10, Lisa III, OEM BLack Gate, Non Black Gate, iBasso P3+, iBasso T3 (new version), RSA Shadow, iBasso D4
Favorite monitors: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2, Ultrasone Ed. 9 #1010, ATH-ESW10JPN
Portable monitor ratings: 1. JH 13 Pro 2. ESW10 JPN 3. PortaPros, KSC35 (modified-a great value) *4. UM2
Source: iRiver H130,140, D303 optical out, D-EJ955, D-EJ1000, D-EJ2000, 25s, 25, D-303, D-777 and others (optical out if available)
Digital Conversion: MB-1 optical Dac, Altoid tin Monica Dac I, Altoid tin Monica II Asynchronous Reclocking Dac, iBasso D10
Headphone Amplifiers:RSA: Shadow, Predator, P-51 Mustang, SR71A, Xin: IV Micro, IV Mini, Reference, SM3B, SuperMacro V LE, SM3 V6 (IV all switches), XRTA X-1, C&C Box, iBasso: P1, P2, P3, P3+, T1, T2, T3, T4 D1, D2, D3, D4, D10 Woo 3 Modified-Siemens 6922 driver, 7236 power tube, Woo 6 with the original Pseudo dual PS -
Ear Monitors: JH13 Pro, Ultra Ed. 9, Grado HF-2/F1 #469, HD650, ATH-ESW10 JPN, Ultrasone 750, HFI780, PortaPro modified, KSC35, Equation RP-21, Westone UM2
Last edited by jamato8; 12-20-2007 at 08:48 PM.
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12-20-2007, 08:45 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Santa Rosa, CA --image Katmandu, Nepal Summer 2006 *We are but a cosmic blink or was that wink?*
Posts: 7,601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vvs_75
We all do! Just don’t forget to tell us at what point you start likening it better than the Xin reference. |
I don't know that I will like it better or worse. It may be just another way to subtly or not so subtly to interpret the digital and audio signal.
__________________
John aka Jam and Jama
Photo gallery at: www.pbase.com/jamato8 Recent publication: Ethnobotany Research & Applications, Vol 7 (2009) Kam Guilzhouh nyim Guangxxih di Benxtux Wenchual nyim Zihyuanc dih Gonxliix: Kam Local Indigenous Knowledge and Sustainable Resource Management in Guizhou and Guangxi Provinces, China http://www.ethnobotanyjournal.org/
The one constant in life is change, so will that change?
Feel with your own heart, see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.
JH13's > Why stay home when you can go to the concert?
Listening with: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2 #469
Digital conversion: the all new MB-1 optical dual Wolfson portable dac
Amps I am currently listening with: RSA P-51 Mustang, SR 71A, iBasso D10, Lisa III, OEM BLack Gate, Non Black Gate, iBasso P3+, iBasso T3 (new version), RSA Shadow, iBasso D4
Favorite monitors: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2, Ultrasone Ed. 9 #1010, ATH-ESW10JPN
Portable monitor ratings: 1. JH 13 Pro 2. ESW10 JPN 3. PortaPros, KSC35 (modified-a great value) *4. UM2
Source: iRiver H130,140, D303 optical out, D-EJ955, D-EJ1000, D-EJ2000, 25s, 25, D-303, D-777 and others (optical out if available)
Digital Conversion: MB-1 optical Dac, Altoid tin Monica Dac I, Altoid tin Monica II Asynchronous Reclocking Dac, iBasso D10
Headphone Amplifiers:RSA: Shadow, Predator, P-51 Mustang, SR71A, Xin: IV Micro, IV Mini, Reference, SM3B, SuperMacro V LE, SM3 V6 (IV all switches), XRTA X-1, C&C Box, iBasso: P1, P2, P3, P3+, T1, T2, T3, T4 D1, D2, D3, D4, D10 Woo 3 Modified-Siemens 6922 driver, 7236 power tube, Woo 6 with the original Pseudo dual PS -
Ear Monitors: JH13 Pro, Ultra Ed. 9, Grado HF-2/F1 #469, HD650, ATH-ESW10 JPN, Ultrasone 750, HFI780, PortaPro modified, KSC35, Equation RP-21, Westone UM2
Last edited by jamato8; 12-20-2007 at 10:06 PM.
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12-20-2007, 09:11 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
Member of the Trade:
Rockhopper Audio
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 2,026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8
Dynamics as that fluctuation of sound with a clean leading edge that has impact, has attack that does not bleed onto other notes or areas where it should not.
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To me that sounds like separate and impact and not necessarily dynamics. Stereophile defines dynamics and dynamic range as:
Stereophile: Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary
dynamic Giving an impression of wide dynamic range; punchy. This is related to system speed as well as to volume contrast.
dynamic range 1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages. 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion.
Now, I'm not saying that Stereophile is the end-all be-all for defining how we use words to describe music, but on the other hand there is something to be said for a standard language that is used to refer to things consistently so we can all infer the same thing from a subjective statement.
As a classically trained musician I was taught that dynamics deal with the variety in volume indicated by markings such as p(iano), f(orte), mf(mezzo forte=medium loud)... etc.
Naxos defines it as the level of sound (loud or soft) via their dictionary:
Musical Terms | Music Glossary: Terminology | Dictionary - D-F
I can check the Harvard Dictionary of musical terms when I get home as it tends to be more thorough.
Perhaps that is what boomana is getting at as far as asking for qualifications. It can be difficult to interpret a review or impressions when you have to try to determine what the writer means by "dynamic, musical, bright,... etc.
just my 2 bits. 
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12-20-2007, 10:04 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Santa Rosa, CA --image Katmandu, Nepal Summer 2006 *We are but a cosmic blink or was that wink?*
Posts: 7,601
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Great, thank you. Sounds good to me. I used to play the sax so I can understand the whole dynamic scenario. I am glad there are dictionaries we can all refer to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrice
To me that sounds like separate and impact and not necessarily dynamics. Stereophile defines dynamics and dynamic range as:
Stereophile: Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary
dynamic Giving an impression of wide dynamic range; punchy. This is related to system speed as well as to volume contrast.
dynamic range 1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages. 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion.
Now, I'm not saying that Stereophile is the end-all be-all for defining how we use words to describe music, but on the other hand there is something to be said for a standard language that is used to refer to things consistently so we can all infer the same thing from a subjective statement.
As a classically trained musician I was taught that dynamics deal with the variety in volume indicated by markings such as p(iano), f(orte), mf(mezzo forte=medium loud)... etc.
Naxos defines it as the level of sound (loud or soft) via their dictionary:
Musical Terms | Music Glossary: Terminology | Dictionary - D-F
I can check the Harvard Dictionary of musical terms when I get home as it tends to be more thorough.
Perhaps that is what boomana is getting at as far as asking for qualifications. It can be difficult to interpret a review or impressions when you have to try to determine what the writer means by "dynamic, musical, bright,... etc.
just my 2 bits. |
__________________
John aka Jam and Jama
Photo gallery at: www.pbase.com/jamato8 Recent publication: Ethnobotany Research & Applications, Vol 7 (2009) Kam Guilzhouh nyim Guangxxih di Benxtux Wenchual nyim Zihyuanc dih Gonxliix: Kam Local Indigenous Knowledge and Sustainable Resource Management in Guizhou and Guangxi Provinces, China http://www.ethnobotanyjournal.org/
The one constant in life is change, so will that change?
Feel with your own heart, see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.
JH13's > Why stay home when you can go to the concert?
Listening with: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2 #469
Digital conversion: the all new MB-1 optical dual Wolfson portable dac
Amps I am currently listening with: RSA P-51 Mustang, SR 71A, iBasso D10, Lisa III, OEM BLack Gate, Non Black Gate, iBasso P3+, iBasso T3 (new version), RSA Shadow, iBasso D4
Favorite monitors: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2, Ultrasone Ed. 9 #1010, ATH-ESW10JPN
Portable monitor ratings: 1. JH 13 Pro 2. ESW10 JPN 3. PortaPros, KSC35 (modified-a great value) *4. UM2
Source: iRiver H130,140, D303 optical out, D-EJ955, D-EJ1000, D-EJ2000, 25s, 25, D-303, D-777 and others (optical out if available)
Digital Conversion: MB-1 optical Dac, Altoid tin Monica Dac I, Altoid tin Monica II Asynchronous Reclocking Dac, iBasso D10
Headphone Amplifiers:RSA: Shadow, Predator, P-51 Mustang, SR71A, Xin: IV Micro, IV Mini, Reference, SM3B, SuperMacro V LE, SM3 V6 (IV all switches), XRTA X-1, C&C Box, iBasso: P1, P2, P3, P3+, T1, T2, T3, T4 D1, D2, D3, D4, D10 Woo 3 Modified-Siemens 6922 driver, 7236 power tube, Woo 6 with the original Pseudo dual PS -
Ear Monitors: JH13 Pro, Ultra Ed. 9, Grado HF-2/F1 #469, HD650, ATH-ESW10 JPN, Ultrasone 750, HFI780, PortaPro modified, KSC35, Equation RP-21, Westone UM2
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12-20-2007, 10:48 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
Moderator
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern York County, PA
Posts: 7,834
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When people use words in a way that's different from what they actually mean, no one understands what they mean. So it helps to know that when jamato8 says "dynamics" he really means something completely different. It's always good to know what words mean, and how to use them.
__________________
apogee duet/denon 2900ta/sony ps-x500->rotel RC1090->hf1/hf2/hafler p1000->htd level 3
post count is irrelevant
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12-20-2007, 10:52 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper
Doesn't all this pedagogical attitude fight against the creative use of language a little? I think it harms immediacy of expression. Let's not be too formal... We aren't a recognized audio magazine yet, after all.
P.S. Words like "musical" could never be defined. Musical is what does good to your favorite music and to your individual pair of ears; therefore, it'll be as subjective to others as it is objective to you. No delirating standardizations please!
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Except a word like "dynamic" has a very specific definition to musicians. Anyone can throw around the use of the word "dynamic," and indeed most people probably aren't familiar with its actual definition which can lead to uninformed people mis-using it. Not saying that jamato's mis-used it, just saying that those who lack musical training or knowledge aren't going to use the word properly and hence a reviewer who lacks musical training/knowledge is going to pass off bad information. I don't think I'm being too technical on this either, as this is music we're all listening to and regardless of genre, all music is built on certain principles, dynamics being one of them. The definition that thrice provided is right on the mark.
And for the record, I'm a trained violinist (20 years now) and formerly played piano (5 years).
__________________
CanJam 2010 - the premier headphone event of the year, every year! Plan now to attend!
June 5-6, 2010 - Hyatt Regency O'Hare - Rosemont/Chicago, IL
Completed Loaner Programs: #1 (Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000) | #2 (Signal Cable SRA ICs & MPDR AC cord) | #3 (AKG K701 w/ 2,000+ hours) | #4 (HeadAmp Gilmore Lite LE) | #5 (Grado SR325i) | #6 (Go-Vibe V6, HeadAmp AE-2, Xenos 1HA-EPC) | #7 (HeadAmp Pico, RSA Predator)
Feedback: Head-Fi | Audiogon
Last edited by Asr; 12-20-2007 at 10:56 PM.
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12-20-2007, 10:57 PM
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500+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk
When people use words in a way that's different from what they actually mean, no one understands what they mean. So it helps to know that when jamato8 says "dynamics" he really means something completely different. It's always good to know what words mean, and how to use them.
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X10 !!!!!
If one doesn't use language correctly, if one assigns incorrect meaning to words, communication is all but impossible and discussion is meaningless.
Words have a precise meaning and understanding their proper meaning fosters communication and the creative exchange of ideas.
It is the imprecise understanding of language that hampers creativity and creative thought.
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12-20-2007, 11:30 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
Member of the Trade:
Rockhopper Audio
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 2,026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper
Agreed regarding "dynamic", it is indeed something transversal to music genres and personal tastes. Where it becomes a personal thing again, is when comparisons come into play, i.e. when different references are concerned. One will be for the forceful dynamics (supposedly the classical music lover), the other for the subtle and delicate (like the acoustic music lover), therefore opinions will be diverse...
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See know you've provided a great example showing how improper use and lack of clarity leads to confusion and miscommunication. Let's take you last statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper
Where it becomes a personal thing again, is when comparisons come into play, i.e. when different references are concerned. One will be for the forceful dynamics (supposedly the classical music lover), the other for the subtle and delicate (like the acoustic music lover), therefore opinions will be diverse...
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You clearly do not understand what dynamics refers to, despite having read the aforementioned definition. Dynamics refers to the contrast and use of louder and softer volumes in music. Forceful dynamics are not unique to any one type or genre of music. You can have subtle and delicate dynamics in classical, jazz, folk, rock...etc. just as you can have forceful dynamics as well.
Where dynamics comes into play regarding audio gear is that particular piece of gear's ability to convey those dynamics accurately. If a piece of gear glosses over the dynamics and doe snot allow the finer nuances of the dynamic changes to come through then that piece might be described as having poor dynamic performance. The degree of the quality of dynamic performance in a piece of gear is what is up to the consumer to decide...how important is dynamics to you?
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12-20-2007, 11:31 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Santa Rosa, CA --image Katmandu, Nepal Summer 2006 *We are but a cosmic blink or was that wink?*
Posts: 7,601
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At this point I find that the Predator is handling volume quite well. No sign of clipping with bass heavy music and as the volume is increased the sound field closes in slightly but no more than what I would normally expect. Right now I like the medium gain as it sounds the most neutral to my ear (the low gain is a little warmer and the high gain a little brighter).
I am using the Ultrasone 750's most of the time but other headphones that I use can be seen in my signature.
__________________
John aka Jam and Jama
Photo gallery at: www.pbase.com/jamato8 Recent publication: Ethnobotany Research & Applications, Vol 7 (2009) Kam Guilzhouh nyim Guangxxih di Benxtux Wenchual nyim Zihyuanc dih Gonxliix: Kam Local Indigenous Knowledge and Sustainable Resource Management in Guizhou and Guangxi Provinces, China http://www.ethnobotanyjournal.org/
The one constant in life is change, so will that change?
Feel with your own heart, see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.
JH13's > Why stay home when you can go to the concert?
Listening with: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2 #469
Digital conversion: the all new MB-1 optical dual Wolfson portable dac
Amps I am currently listening with: RSA P-51 Mustang, SR 71A, iBasso D10, Lisa III, OEM BLack Gate, Non Black Gate, iBasso P3+, iBasso T3 (new version), RSA Shadow, iBasso D4
Favorite monitors: JH13 Pro, Grado HF2, Ultrasone Ed. 9 #1010, ATH-ESW10JPN
Portable monitor ratings: 1. JH 13 Pro 2. ESW10 JPN 3. PortaPros, KSC35 (modified-a great value) *4. UM2
Source: iRiver H130,140, D303 optical out, D-EJ955, D-EJ1000, D-EJ2000, 25s, 25, D-303, D-777 and others (optical out if available)
Digital Conversion: MB-1 optical Dac, Altoid tin Monica Dac I, Altoid tin Monica II Asynchronous Reclocking Dac, iBasso D10
Headphone Amplifiers:RSA: Shadow, Predator, P-51 Mustang, SR71A, Xin: IV Micro, IV Mini, Reference, SM3B, SuperMacro V LE, SM3 V6 (IV all switches), XRTA X-1, C&C Box, iBasso: P1, P2, P3, P3+, T1, T2, T3, T4 D1, D2, D3, D4, D10 Woo 3 Modified-Siemens 6922 driver, 7236 power tube, Woo 6 with the original Pseudo dual PS -
Ear Monitors: JH13 Pro, Ultra Ed. 9, Grado HF-2/F1 #469, HD650, ATH-ESW10 JPN, Ultrasone 750, HFI780, PortaPro modified, KSC35, Equation RP-21, Westone UM2
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12-20-2007, 11:44 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
High-End Forum Volunteer
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: White Plains, NY
Posts: 8,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrice
To me that sounds like separate and impact ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper
Doesn't all this pedagogical attitude ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk
When people use words in a way that's different ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr
Except a word like "dynamic" ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjtx
X10 !!!!! If one doesn't use language correctly, ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper
Agreed regarding "dynamic" ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrice
See know you've provided a great example showing how improper use ...
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maybe you guys could stop derailing this thread and stay on topic.
__________________
1. Cary 306 SACD »» RSA B52 or HR Bal Home »» HD650 / HD800 / SR325 / RS1 / HF2
2. Cary 306 SACD »» HeadAmp KGSS »» HE60
FS: Balanced RS1 (buttons) Click Here
Head-fi
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12-21-2007, 12:24 AM
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Moderator:
Headphoneus Supremus:
The first to organize an International Head-Fi Meet (2006)
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: "I can't hear you...I have my headphones on" Long Island, NY
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Zounds  .
Scrypt has molted and spread out over the universe 
__________________
**********************************
-My house was built for lovin'...not a theater of war.
-Realize it's harder to find your own voice, then to follow one, already in the air.
~~~><///'>~~~><///'>~~~><///'> ~~~
Music is my recreational drug...I need a dose, everyday!
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12-21-2007, 12:45 AM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Santa Rosa, CA --image Katmandu, Nepal Summer 2006 *We are but a cosmic blink or was that wink?*
Posts: 7,601
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This isn't getting to be much fun. I just enjoy sharing what I am hearing but having that lost in a debate that makes it difficult to read about the Predator is like a train that just went over a cliff. Maybe I will start this over.
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12-21-2007, 12:51 AM
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Moderator:
Headphoneus Supremus:
The first to organize an International Head-Fi Meet (2006)
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: "I can't hear you...I have my headphones on" Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8
...a debate that makes it difficult to read about the Predator is like a train that just went over a cliff. Maybe I will start this over.
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I've never seen a train go off a cliff. Cars maybe, but never a train. 
However, trains do get derailed (I kid).
"I was astonished as to how viscerally real, see-through, dimensional and ultra delicate the (insert name of any component) had become."
__________________
**********************************
-My house was built for lovin'...not a theater of war.
-Realize it's harder to find your own voice, then to follow one, already in the air.
~~~><///'>~~~><///'>~~~><///'> ~~~
Music is my recreational drug...I need a dose, everyday!
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