Official Denon AH-C700 Comparisons/Impressions

[tstarn06]

Okay, this is all very preliminary, but even with very high expectations (soozieq, are you listening?), the Denons were pretty amazing right out of the box. I listened to a sampling of different musical styles, and all I can say is, wow. I tried them both amped and unamped, and in both cases, wow again (I preferred the amped sound, but only marginally). I can't believe the efficiency of the Denons, as I only had to push my ZVM to 18-19 clicks before the sound was plenty loud. With the Atrios, it's 22-23 (battery savings right there).

Anyway, the mids and highs sparkled, in a vey good way. I never thought I would be considering a move from the Atrios (are you listening cn11?), after dumping my Etys for them. And at this point, that's not a done deal. The Denons still must pass the test of time relative to listening fatigue, which the Atrios have already mastered.

After about 15 minutes, I had to run out to the gym, so I hooked the C700s up to the pink noise machine, and I will let them go until tomorrow morning. But the early results are scary. You and the others are right, Soozieq, Denon seems to have hit the sweet spot in terms of SQ, bass, comfort ... and a cord that doesn't tangle. I am going to add one of my shirt clips (I bought a bunch from Ety, the ER6i version), and start serious listening.

I don't know a rolled off high from a decaying note (that's for the real experts), but I believe I have pretty good ears (though some may disagree). If the first 15 minutes are any indication, and with all due respect to Bono, I think I finally found what I'm looking for.

Note: This doesn't mean I prefer the Denons over the PK1s. I have already decided that I favor the PK1 sound sig over the Atrios. Tomorrow, I will A/B the PK1s and the C700s as well, but I have a feeling I will love them equally, which is okay, too. Just different form factors, and one requires an amp, the other does not. It's all good.

Even if I find the Denons pass the fatigue test, I think I will keep the Atrios, cause I still like their warm, lush sound, but I have to admit, the mids on the Denons are sublime.

[soozieq]

tstarn - Glad you like them so far. I'm looking forward to more info re: fatigue (as epithetless has mentioned it), and also the comparison with the PK1s.

By the way, I had an idea re: replacement tips. How about we all e-mail the Denon UK MD Mike O'Mahoney from here. . .

http://www.badaweb.co.uk/denon/contact.html

. . . and include the link to this thread? I've already written to him, but he's unlikely to take notice of just one person - that's why I thought a 'mass hit' might work better! I haven't counted how many people have bought them, but I think it's about 8 so far, and other potential buyers who are still waiting for comparisons. Do you, or does anyone think it might help, despite the fact their customer service is considered to be less than useless??

Originally Posted By Karma 23
How would you rate the C700's vs. the EX90's?

Karma, the EX90s sound nice, but there is no comparison at all. If you have the same Sony unit that I do - you'll love the pairing with the Denons. They're clearer than the EX90s, have better bass, mids and highs, and about the same soundstage.

They isolate a lot more as well, so I'm able to put the volume much lower (15/30) with the Denons, as opposed to 20/22 out of 30 with the EX90s. With no EQ (except for classical), and a much lower volume, I can eke out extra battery life which is a nice bonus.

[cn11]

Originally Posted by tstarn06

Okay, this is all very preliminary, but even with very high expectations (soozieq, are you listening?), the Denons were pretty amazing right out of the box. I listened to a sampling of different musical styles, and all I can say is, wow. I tried them both amped and unamped, and in both cases, wow again (I preferred the amped sound, but only marginally). I can't believe the efficiency of the Denons, as I only had to push my ZVM to 18-19 clicks before the sound was plenty loud. With the Atrios, it's 22-23 (battery savings right there).

Anyway, the mids and highs sparkled, in a vey good way. I never thought I would be considering a move from the Atrios (are you listening cn11?), after dumping my Etys for them. And at this point, that's not a done deal. The Denons still must pass the test of time relative to listening fatigue, which the Atrios have already mastered.

After about 15 minutes, I had to run out to the gym, so I hooked the C700s up to the pink noise machine, and I will let them go until tomorrow morning. But the early results are scary. You and the others are right, Soozieq, Denon seems to have hit the sweet spot in terms of SQ, bass, comfort ... and a cord that doesn't tangle. I am going to add one of my shirt clips (I bought a bunch from Ety, the ER6i version), and start serious listening.

I don't know a rolled off high from a decaying note (that's for the real experts), but I believe I have pretty good ears (though some may disagree). If the first 15 minutes are any indication, and with all due respect to Bono, I think I finally found what I'm looking for.

Note: This doesn't mean I prefer the Denons over the PK1s. I have already decided that I favor the PK1 sound sig over the Atrios. Tomorrow, I will A/B the PK1s and the C700s as well, but I have a feeling I will love them equally, which is okay, too. Just different form factors, and one requires an amp, the other does not. It's all good.

Even if I find the Denons pass the fatigue test, I think I will keep the Atrios, cause I still like their warm, lush sound, but I have to admit, the mids on the Denons are sublime.

tstarn- Yeah, I hear ya, heh heh. They're pretty spectacular out of the box. I never got around to running pink noise overnight, but I haven't noticed the same amount of change as with the Atrios. I'm glad you like them... I think I'm in the same camp as you in saying it's hard to pick one over the other with the Denon/Atrio. I think I'll keep them both. But I do prefer the sound sig of the Denons. The Atrios may become my travel phone. The more I get them out every day at work the more I appreciate the no-tangle wire. The Atrios took so long to straighten out every morning...then insert properly, etc. And how about that build quality? They're so nice in that regard. As for the PK1/Denon comparison, the PK1's are that good huh? Wow. I have never owned an amp for portable listening, so that rules them out for me I guess. I had the PK2's for a short while before the Atrios, but quickly sold them here as they weren't what I was looking for.

Hmmm, well lookie there, my Vibez & Denons are right on the end table next to me beckoning- I think it's time for some evening listening.

Cheers all...

[MrFaust]

While the C700 sound great, they surely make me miss my D2000's.

[99SiR]

With regards to tips: My old tips from my sony ex-71's fit perfect. They are almost the exact same tip except seem to be a little softer, more comfortable and even a little easier to create a seal with. This could be due to to the fact they are well used and worn in, i'm not sure.

However, anyone who enjoys the stock c700 tips should equally if not more-so enjoy the tips from sony.

[SactoMan101]

The Denon AH-C700 demonstrates this valid fact: they spent the money to properly engineer the design of the dynamic driver and driver case for maximum performance. As a result, the AH-C700 compares itself very well against balanced armature driver IEM's costing far more than what the AH-C700 costs. It's comparable to what Futursonics did with the Atrio M5/M8 IEM.

[tstarn06]

Originally Posted by SactoMan101

The Denon AH-C700 demonstrates this valid fact: they spent the money to properly engineer the design of the dynamic driver and driver case for maximum performance. As a result, the AH-C700 compares itself very well against balanced armature driver IEM's costing far more than what the AH-C700 costs. It's comparable to what Futursonics did with the Atrio M5/M8 IEM.

That's a very interesting point, and one that I believe to be true.

Now, I have finally come to doing a decent level of comparisons between the C700s, M5s and PK1s.

This afternoon, I walked to and home from the dentist (about 30 mins. both ways), and funny, but yesterday I sort of quoted Bono in saying I finally found what I was looking for (in the Denons). As I walked east on Arch St. here in Philadelphia, I noticed some TV trucks massing near the National Constitution Center, and remembered that the man himself (Bono, that is) will be on stage there at 7 p.m. to receive something called the Liberty Medal. Check it out... http://www.constitutioncenter.org/libertymedal/

But I digress...

I listened to the Denons on the street in both directions, and they are extremely fine canal phones (maybe the best in that category). To my ears, a little bit better (brighter?) than the Atrios, as I suspected in my brief listening session last night when they arrived. I guess I find myself somewhere between cn11 and epithetless, in that while I favor the Denon SQ overall (cn11), I still really like the warm, non-fatiguing sound of the Atrios (epithetless). I just did a half hour of AB testing, and I just can't decide. I guess I can call it a draw. Both are keepers, and will have a role in my listening habits going forward. As Soozieq also notes, I can always eq the highs a bit on the Denons (actually, the Classical setting on the ZVM EQ menu does it fine).

Now, as for the PK1s, I am listening to them right now, and I have to say, the sound signature they deliver is the best of the three, especially in the area of detail. This is comparing the PK1s and Denons through my Microshar amp. The Denons, as also noted in other posts, require a lot less power to reach max sound levels (it's amazing how much more volume you need to hear the PK1s via the amp), but with volumes equalized, I find the PK1 sound richer, and the highs more in tune with my ears. The Denon highs and mids are a little too forward when heard through the amp when compared to the PK1s.

So ends my little review. Mostly, I agree with Warrior in an earlier post on ths thread ... the Denons are slightly preferable over the Atrios due to the better mids, but like him, I am keeping my Atrios for specific listening situations. Next time I take a subway, train or plane, I will bring them both along and do a comparison for serious isolation (I know some here say the Denons are fine for blocking out most sound). That's one situation where the Atrios may be my choice.

As for the PK1s, if I can use an amp, they'll be my first choice. They really respond to what an amp brings to the table. My guess is the folks at Yuin designed them that way for a reason. I know some on Head-Fi also really like the PK1s, and I understand why. Also, since ear buds fit my ears well, the Yuins are by far the most comfortable of the three - nothing sticking in my ears. I know some people have problems with ear buds, in terms of pain with long-term use. Luckily, that's not a problem for me. And with the right volume through an amp, the Yuins can withstand street noise, but probably not trains, planes and other loud environments.

So do I have the best three earphones for the money? I think I do. The total cost=About $380. Is there a single earphone that can deliver what they all do in one? Probably. But I'd rather have three choices than one, just in case any of the three crash and burn, are stolen, or otherwise cease to exist.

Hope this helps.

[sinner6]

I just replaced a Sansa E260 and Sony Mdr-ex90 with a sony nzw-a818 and Denon c700's.

As an audio engineer, I am accustomed to listening to music in a studio environment using monitors and a studio subwoofer. Let's just say I am used to a flat, clear sound with very deep bass extension.

As most of you are aware the upper mids are normally "scooped" in the response of most hi-fi equipment. So when listening to "flat and detailed" playback devices the initial impression is "too much treble" as it takes a little while to get used to the sound.

Having said that, the C700's (to my ear) sound better than a true "flat", very detailed but also very SMOOTH and RICH with a slightly hyped bass that is very defined and clear. As a musician, I dare say they sound "musical", and in my opinion represent and incredible bang for the buck.

My EX-90's had been modded per the thread here and are nice headphones, but truly, after about 2 seconds of listening it is very apparent that this is a whole different class of phones. Any layman with intact hearing will see this, not that there is anything wrong with the ex-90's.

One nice thing about the Sony a818 is that the tips to the included EX series headphones not only work with, but in my case work better than the stock Denon tips.

The differences between the e260 and a818 are many and always in favor of the Sony unit from response speed to sound quality to screen quality to build quality, the Sony is the better unit. Not to sound overly gushy, there are two things I would like to see implemented. A zoom feature for the picture viewer and some form of bookmarking.

soozieq- I do have one question for you. Do you notice a slight hissing at idle with this combo? In my case the sony is slightly louder at idle than the sansa, though none of the crazy sqealing and popping from the sansa is not present in the sony.

[soozieq]

Originally Posted by tstarn
So do I have the best three earphones for the money? I think I do. The total cost=About $380. Is there a single earphone that can deliver what they all do in one? Probably. But I'd rather have three choices than one, just in case any of the three crash and burn, are stolen, or otherwise cease to exist.

I guess $380's not so bad if you have 3 headphones that you love - it's only when they sit in a drawer unused and unwanted that the money begins to be a big deal! It seems you have a pair for any listening circumstances, so you are totally covered now

Originally Posted by sinner6

One nice thing about the Sony a818 is that the tips to the included EX series headphones not only work with, but in may case work better than the stock Denon tips.

I tried the Sony tips but 'lost' a little of the bass. I'll try a different size to see if it makes any difference.

Originally Posted by sinner6
soozieq- I do have one question for you. Do you notice a slight hissing at idle with this combo? In my case the sony is slightly louder at idle than the sansa, though none of the crazy sqealing and popping from the sansa is not present in the sony.

I don't hear any hiss at all. The only headphones that ever produced hiss with this combo were the E500s and the UE Super.fi 5 Pro. I can tolerate a little hiss anyway, but it's nice that I don't have to. By the way, it was interesting to read a review from someone with exactly the same combination, as the 808 and 818 are the same, one with Atrac - one without

Originally Posted by SactoMan101
The Denon AH-C700 demonstrates this valid fact: they spent the money to properly engineer the design of the dynamic driver and driver case for maximum performance. As a result, the AH-C700 compares itself very well against balanced armature driver IEM's costing far more than what the AH-C700 costs. It's comparable to what Futursonics did with the Atrio M5/M8 IEM.

Is this to do with the aluminium housing then? I've never had a headphone with aluminium housing so I wouldn't know.

[tstarn06]

Hey Warrior.

See my latest post on the Denons vs. the PK1s. Guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. The more I AB'd the two phones, the more I found the PK1 sound more satisfying (again, this is above both the Atrios and the Denons). But as you can see, I like em all, and I am going to keep them all. Funny how things work out in this crazy earphone comparo thing. Again, I am not an audiophile, just use my best judgment as a listener. Hey, it could even be how the PK1s work with the Microshar, vs. how the Denons interact with that amp. Same with the Penguin. With both amps, the PK1 sound is a slight bit preferable. So be it. And since all I have in the over the ear category are the SR-80s and the PX-100s, my focus is on earphones. Oh, a final thought. I find the ear bud form factor much more comfortable, and that also could color my feelings about SQ. Not sure, but it could be a small factor.

Originally Posted by warrior05

It has been awhile since I've had the PK1s so take this with a large grain of salt.

I would say the Denons have a fair amount more bass extension. The mids are more upfront but I think the highs would go to the PK1s but barely if so. The thing with the PK1s is they are very open and headphone sounding. They certainly offer a more expansive soundstage than the Denons. I would recommend them over the Denons for walking because they aren't as isolating, thereby safer to use. I still use my JBL 220s when I walk the dog because I can easily hear cars coming from behind me. The C700s are too isolating for this.

The PK1s are more of a laid back sound than the Denons but I think that is largely due to the inherent format differences. If I listened to a ton of classical music - I might give the nod to the PK1s. It is why I usually reach for my balanced K701s for classical. I want to get that sense of instrument placement and spatial qualities of listening to a full orchestra. The C700s have more of a fun sound - certainly not analytical but very musical.

Personally - I feel the Denons have more to offer than the PK1s. I'll gladly sacrifice a bit of soundstage and that "headphone sound" for the musical presentation that the C700s offer up. To me it has just about everything - wonderful bass with impressive extension, sensual mids, detailed enough highs with no sibilance or harshness, decent soundstage especially in regards to IEMs/canalphones, quick and easy insertion, terrific build quality as CN mentioned and no cable microphonics.

Hope that helps.

[sinner6]

derailment averted

noise related discussion

[soozieq]

Originally Posted by sinner6

Here is the noise floor on the A818. It's great sounding unit if not exactly silent at idle.
[IMG]http://webpages.charter.net/n.scroggins/scope.JPG[//IMG]

I don't get any noise from my 808 when it's idle, but I did with the 706 even though it wasn't enough to bother me. It might be useful to start a new thread called 'idle noise' or something and post your results there. People searching for that might not think to look in a Denon thread and anything that narrows the search results can only be a good thing

[warrior05]

Originally Posted by tstarn06

Hey Warrior.

See my latest post on the Denons vs. the PK1s. Guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. The more I AB'd the two phones, the more I found the PK1 sound more satisfying (again, this is above both the Atrios and the Denons). But as you can see, I like em all, and I am going to keep them all. Funny how things work out in this crazy earphone comparo thing. Again, I am not an audiophile, just use my best judgment as a listener. Hey, it could even be how the PK1s work with the Microshar, vs. how the Denons interact with that amp. Same with the Penguin. With both amps, the PK1 sound is a slight bit preferable. So be it. And since all I have in the over the ear category are the SR-80s and the PX-100s, my focus is on earphones. Oh, a final thought. I find the ear bud form factor much more comfortable, and that also could color my feelings about SQ. Not sure, but it could be a small factor.

I liked your comparo between the three. I would lend more credence to your findings than what I wrote simply due to the fact I had to write about the PK1s from memory. I do remember one night settling in to do an A/B with the PK1s and some other earphone. I hadn't listened to my PK1s for awhile at the time and I remember being surprised at how good they really do sound. Honestly, the only reason I sold them was because I knew they just wouldn't get much use from me.

The PK1s are a high impedance earphone which is why they need amping. I believe they are something like 120 ohm where a typical earphone is less than 20 (the C700s are 16).

You've got a very nice collection of earphones. And you've got all formats covered - IEM, canalphone and earbud!

[cn11]

It is sure an interesting time for earphones. I just skimmed over the new thread about the new Klipsch models, and they sound very interesting. I would love to hear a comparo between the new Klipsch 3-driver, the Denon AH-C700, Atrios, and perhaps the Westone 3's if they ever make it to market... and perhaps the q-JAYS. Lots of choices out there for those new to the world of higher-end earphones. For now though it seems hard to top the Denons... but I'm sure I'll be eating those words in a couple months again.

[tstarn06]

That's funny. I am going to try and resist at this point. One thing about the Klipsch phones I don't like is the size (of the one pair), and even the Denon's have a little of the Frankenstein look.

But for now, I am at peace, I think.