Jerry Harvey is back!

[Pale Rider]

Those of you who have seen the JH13 in person, are the cables detachable from the earpieces? I simply cannot tell from the pictures on the website.

[MaoDi]

Originally Posted by Hotdoggie

1. I would definitely keep a close eye on his flagship custom. If it is even better than UE11pro or ES3X, then I would get it for sure.

2. I think custom IEM headsets for pilots has one HUGE (and potentially fatal) problem--in case the pilot passes out/dies, custom IEM headset can make the situation even worse. Look at what happened within a month ago when a pilot died right after take off and luckily one of the passengers was a pilot too. However, if the pilot used a custom IEM headset, then I would imagine it would have been an even more difficult task for the passenger to communicate with the control tower to listen to their guidance to land the plane. I am aware of all the advantages of custom IEM (even for pilots), but this 1 single problem may be far more important though. I guess if the pilot(s) include a non-custom headset on-board then it will be okay. Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out there.

i don't see the problem, the Aviation headsets from JH audio are single Ear with a boom mic...

[MaoDi]

ahhhhhh, i'm tempted.

[hockeyb213]

Originally Posted by Pale Rider

Those of you who have seen the JH13 in person, are the cables detachable from the earpieces? I simply cannot tell from the pictures on the website.

they are most definitely detachable without even asking I know they are because they offer the option to buy multiple cables and that is usually jerry's style to use replaceable cables.

[Hotdoggie]

Originally Posted by MaoDi

i don't see the problem, the Aviation headsets from JH audio are single Ear with a boom mic...

What does being single ear or having a boom mic got to do with what I said? I was simply pointing out the fact that it is far more difficult for anyone else, other than the person the headset is made for, to put on someone else's custom headset versus a universal headset. Will the other person be able to get a clear sound? Or, will the headset even stay on/in place (being single ear probably makes it worse)? If the person cannot hear clearly what instructions the control tower is giving, then a boom mic is useless--the pilot and the control tower has to be able communicate (both listen and talk). Also, don't presume that everyone knows how to put on a custom headset/IEM either.

I am pretty sure that when it comes to aviation, safety is of utmost importance. Therefore, it is unwise to put unnecessary obstacles in the way of safety just for the sake of better sound quality or so that your hair don't get messed up. Having audiophile quality sound is not important to pilots when they are flying, but the safety of the pilots and their passengers is. In an emergency situation, every second counts, and this is why non-custom headsets' ease of operation and universal fit are far better than custom ones. Whereas universal headsets maximize the chances of survival for a pilot or his passengers, custom headsets potentially decrease their chances of survival.

[Zalithian]

Changed my mind. =p. Sigh, wish I could hear them and am looking forward to comparisons!

[MaoDi]

Originally Posted by Hotdoggie

What does being single ear or having a boom mic got to do with what I said? I was simply pointing out the fact that it is far more difficult for anyone else, other than the person the headset is made for, to put on someone else's custom headset versus a universal headset. Will the other person be able to get a clear sound? Or, will the headset even stay on/in place (being single ear probably makes it worse)? If the person cannot hear clearly what instructions the control tower is giving, then a boom mic is useless--the pilot and the control tower has to be able communicate (both listen and talk). Also, don't presume that everyone knows how to put on a custom headset/IEM either.

I am pretty sure that when it comes to aviation, safety is of utmost importance. Therefore, it is unwise to put unnecessary obstacles in the way of safety just for the sake of better sound quality or so that your hair don't get messed up. Having audiophile quality sound is not important to pilots when they are flying, but the safety of the pilots and their passengers is. In an emergency situation, every second counts, and this is why non-custom headsets' ease of operation and universal fit are far better than custom ones. Whereas universal headsets maximize the chances of survival for a pilot or his passengers, custom headsets potentially decrease their chances of survival.

Ok there's no airline in the entire world that has One pilot for a flight...and since there will be two pilot...the other pilot can take instructions...

[Hotdoggie]

Originally Posted by MaoDi

Ok there's no airline in the entire world that has One pilot for a flight...and since there will be two pilot...the other pilot can take instructions...

Did you read about the incident that I wrote about (or similar incidents that had happened before)? I was not talking about big commercial airlines that fly around the world. Commercial airline pilots do not use custom headsets, period--and for good reasons. So, of course there is no problem there. However, many hobbyists do fly their planes with passengers, and that no one else on board can fly the plane except that single pilot. For example, Jerry Harvey do fly with Brittany Harvey (probably with their 2 kids too). Guess what? Brittany is not a licensed pilot, and she cannot land a plane by herself. People do fly planes when there is only a single pilot on board. The hobbyist/small private plane segment happens to be JH Audio's target segment, and that's what I was talking about. You mentioned "... there will be two pilot...", well, there is no guarantee that both pilots cannot have problems at the same time either. My point is, why create unnecessary hurdles with custom headsets when universal ones are clearly better for safety reasons? Just because something is custom fitted for someone, doesn't necessarily mean that it is always better than universal ones.

[MaoDi]

Originally Posted by Hotdoggie

Did you read about the incident that I wrote about (or similar incidents that had happened before)? I was not talking about big commercial airlines that fly around the world. Commercial airline pilots do not use custom headsets, period--and for good reasons. So, of course there is no problem there. However, many hobbyists do fly their planes with passengers, and that no one else on board can fly the plane except that single pilot. For example, Jerry Harvey do fly with Brittany Harvey (probably with their 2 kids too). Guess what? Brittany is not a licensed pilot, and she cannot land a plane by herself. People do fly planes when there is only a single pilot on board. The hobbyist/small private plane segment happens to be JH Audio's target segment, and that's what I was talking about. You mentioned "... there will be two pilot...", well, there is no guarantee that both pilots cannot have problems at the same time either. My point is, why create unnecessary hurdles with custom headsets when universal ones are clearly better for safety reasons? Just because something is custom fitted for someone, doesn't necessarily mean that it is always better than universal ones.

I find your point totally irrelevant. "well there is no guarantee that both pilots cannot have problems at the same time either" Then the arguments completely pointless. whether you have custom headsets or not, if both pilots are dead...YOUR DEAD. i think you're just trying to alter words, and is making the argument useless. Custom products guarantee that the 'Custom Fitted" user gets the best fit and comfort, and it does that. I'm not saying it's better, i'm saying that i don't find a problem with it at all. If Jerry was flying with Brittany, even if Jerry does go in an accident, Brittany isn't a pilot. So whether she hears the instructions clearly or not from an universal or custom headset, it would still be highly unlikely for her to land the plane.

[MaoDi]

Originally Posted by Hotdoggie

My point is, why create unnecessary hurdles with custom headsets when universal ones are clearly better for safety reasons? Just because something is custom fitted for someone, doesn't necessarily mean that it is always better than universal ones.

That's just a comment and statement that's bias to the Universal Side. I could say just like you "What if the universal doesn't fit that user?" just because it says universal doesn't mean it fits everyone. Just because every pilot can hear out of the same pair of universal doesn't mean they actually hear it clearly as universals don't actually fit anyone, and Jerry put that into mind and designed custom fitted headsets. I don't find a problem with that even with larger scale airlines, everyone gets their own pair, and the chances of both or all four pilots dying at the same time is highly unlikely and doesn't even need to be taken into consideration. If someone were to murder the pilots, and they'd be dead, and so would everyone anyways. Throwing out there that "Maybe it'll happen to both pilots" Situation is just pushing it so that a passenger which "might" could be a pilot to use a universal headset.

Your custom vs Universal statement also applies to the Monitor market, why would anyone pay for Customs over universals when you could have the universal version for so much cheaper, and also allows everyone to wear them? Because they just don't fit and sound as good as customs. A properly fit Custom guarantees perfect fit, isolation, and sound quality from the monitor itself period. But universals can only fit to your ear "So well" and because of this, the consistency of sound quality because of fit issues drops dramatically.

I don't even know what point you're trying to prove, the fact that because everyone can wear universals, so universals are better and "safer" or the fact that "Maybe it could happen to both pilots!" ?

[grawk]

I think this particular debate would be better suited to the jerry harvey is back thread over at some aviation headset forum. It's not really helpful here, just derails a good thread.

[music_4321]

Originally Posted by grawk

I think this particular debate would be better suited to the jerry harvey is back thread over at some aviation headset forum. It's not really helpful here, just derails a good thread.

x 2

[Hotdoggie]

Originally Posted by MaoDi

I find your point totally irrelevant. "well there is no guarantee that both pilots cannot have problems at the same time either" Then the arguments completely pointless. whether you have custom headsets or not, if both pilots are dead...YOUR DEAD. i think you're just trying to alter words, and is making the argument useless. Custom products guarantee that the 'Custom Fitted" user gets the best fit and comfort, and it does that. I'm not saying it's better, i'm saying that i don't find a problem with it at all. If Jerry was flying with Brittany, even if Jerry does go in an accident, Brittany isn't a pilot. So whether she hears the instructions clearly or not from an universal or custom headset, it would still be highly unlikely for her to land the plane.

Seriously, have you read about this incident in the news?

Passenger lands plane in Fla. after pilot dies - USATODAY.com

In this case, one of the passengers happens to be a pilot (but for a different class of plane), but because the control tower was able to instruct him step by step, he was able to land the plane safely! If he was not able to use the headset because it was custom fitted, he would not have been able to get the critical instructions from the tower now, would he? Moreover, just because a pilot is dead, it does not mean that you're dead automatically. Yes, "custom fitted" users do get the best fit and comfort--I am fully aware of it, that is why I am getting the JH13 PRO. BUT IT LIMITS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT CAN USE IT! And that is a problem for such a critical instrument in the cockpit. By the way, universal headsets for aviation do fit EVERYONE. Custom headsets, however, fits hardly anyone but the owner of the headset.

grawk and music_4321, I agree with you guys, so I will not talk about this topic anymore. Anyway, I am getting my JH13 PRO very soon, so I am super psyched.

[strangelove]

Well I just got my 10x3 Pros delivered today. Initial impression: hugely, hugely disappointed. I really hope these things need to break in because right now I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach because I just wasted $700 on a pair of custom IEM that I don't want to listen to and can't sell off.

Briefly, first I listened out of my Zune without any amp. They sound very muddy. There's a very wide, open soundstage but they don't handle any type of complex sound (eg, music) well. They quickly get muddy and things become indiscrete. This is especially true with the bass which is not only of low impact to my liking but very, very muddy. The highs are a bit bright, but bearable. What is bad is how harsh and almost sibilant the highs were. Now part of this I hoped was the 10x3s just bringing out the limitations of the Zune so I tried them on my home rig which I will get to next. But first I went back and tried my old portable phones the Ety 6is. While the 10x3s definitely have way more detail and wider sound stage than the Etys, the Etys are much more effortless and don't sound congested/muddy. There is also more bass with the 10x3s than the Etys but I consider the Ety's to basically have no bass. Plus the bass on the 10x3s just sounds bad and there really isn't too much more of it. I'd rather it be missing frankly.

Next I tried them on my home rig out of my Graham Slee Solo + PSU and Denon 3930CI. Now the Solo isn't known to sound that great with low impedence cans but they sound really good with my AT phones (approx 40-50 ohms) and even my Etys (16ohm I think); for reference the 10x3s are listed as 28ohms on the JH Audio web page. Out of my home rig the first thing I noticed was how unbearably bright and harsh the treble was on the 10x3s. Grating is the only word I can think of. While there was better detail and soundstage on the home rig than the Zune, there was still a lot of muddiness. The bass was a little more impactful but again very poor quality. Frankly, I would rate the 10x3s much worse quality than my old Senn 650s on my home rig, probably worse than my old Senn 595s as well. They are definitely worse than all my current home phones.

So there it is. I'm going to continue to do some listening on these and pray for a miracle. I guess maybe I should have gotten the JH13 Pros. I heard the universal fit versions of both at CanJam and decided on the 10x3s because out of my Zune they sounded better to me than the JH13s which sounded flatter.

Also a note on build quality. So both IEM have some irregularities in the acrylic. Maybe it's from the original molds but I would have thought that would have been fixed for the actual product. The cord had some sort of glue on part of it that I'm having a hard time getting off without damaging the cord. The case provided is huge, pictures don't put into words just how unnecessarily huge this thing is. Also it came with several scuffs on it.

Lastly, after about 20min of use the left side started feeling rather uncomfortable in my ear. This came as a surprise to me because I've had custom molded earplugs for years that I can wear for hours without any discomfort and have pretty open ear canals so I wasn't expecting any discomfort.

[jamato8]

My JH13's underwhelmed me at first, as I posted in the other thread. I even tried some prototype earbuds that sound good but shouldn't be in the same class and in some areas they were better! After some time the 13's cleared up and got better and better. I think it was my ear canals and the IEM's burning in. Oh and the bass really sucked for a while and the mids were nothing special but that has all changed a great deal, to a dramatic degree.

On the case I mentioned this to Jerry and they are making two new sizes that are appropriate for the IEM's. He pushed to get these out and didn't feel the case was an overriding factor on holding up production of the IEM's.

I hope they clear for you.